CX 12 fan club

[Grizzly]

Smo-Joe wrote about the CX-12 mouthpiece and the way it fit his mouth.  I have noticed several other comments concerning the CX-12 mouthpiece.

When I got my first CX=12 I had been playing a CBH-2016 and notice immediately the difference in mouthpieces.  Years ago I had played brass band instruments - trumpet, baritone and some trombone - and so started playing the CX-12 the way I had played the brass instruments.  Instead of putting the mouthpiece in my mouth, I just put it up TO my mouth.  It was a little strange at first but didn't take me long to get used to it.  I may be doing something wrong but it seems to work for me.  I have been playing that way now for 15 years.  I don't play out so if I am screwing up there is no one to notice but my family and they are a forgiving bunch.

Regards,
Gene Dodson

I imagine there is quite some variation in embouchures among players, so what you're doing is fine. I practically swallow the thing when I play, which works fine for me (tongue block).

Lucky you with your family! How long did it take for them to accept your playing? After four years, I'm still waiting. :'( I'm pretty sure it's not because it's a CX 12.

Tom

[smojoe]

Gene, my clarinet/sax mouthpieces fit in my mouth (but DON't move). The flute/trumpet/harmonica fit TO the mouth. I do this so that my lips don't get abraded.

S

[rgn39]

After three days of constant playing on my new CX12 I have noticed something quite interesting. Playing my other, chromeplated mouthpiece harmonicas, I have always had a  constant problem with "crud" ( I cant think of a less gross term to describe it)building up on the mouthpiece. I dont care how much I rinse my mouth after eating or drinking, inevitibley after a few minutes of playing I need to clean the mouthpiece. This problem is almost nonexistent with my plastic CX12 which is one of the reasons I am in love with this thing. I am at a loss to explain why this is the case. I feel much better now as I was beginning to think my body  just exuded crud as it doesnt seem to be much of a problem for others. I am wondering if it could be some chemical reaction betwixt my body fluids and the metal. Maybe I need to do a ph test.

[Gnarly He Man]

I was beginning to think my body  just exuded crud

Well duh . . .
What we think of as skin is all dead! And sloughs off almost constantly . . .
The sharper the mouthpiece (I'm thinking of my recently acquired 260s), the worse it is.
CX-12s are very maintainence free--and easier to work on when you need to.
Gary

[smojoe]

In time, you will notice little half moon rings of dry dark colored substance which is of a glassine texture not unlike Tetramin fish food flakes. It will fall from the holes or will loosen and appear like little semi circles sticking TO but be partially detached FROM the sides of the holes.

smo-joe (who found the cheapest way to travel..by truck inside a shipping crate)

[Grizzly]

I was beginning to think my body  just exuded crud

Well duh . . .
What we think of as skin is all dead! And sloughs off almost constantly . . .
The sharper the mouthpiece (I'm thinking of my recently acquired 260s), the worse it is.
CX-12s are very maintainence free--and easier to work on when you need to.
Gary

The wonk in me is compelled to point out that lips aren't made of skin. They're an extension of the mucous membrane that starts in the mouth.

That said, lips can and do slough off too.

Consider also that saliva will dry out as it's exposed to air; and that any saliva residue on the mouthplate will liquify, mix with new saliva, and form a thick, sticky goo that recoats the mouthplate as you play.

I'm not good about wiping down my metal harmonicas; but I always wipe off my black CX 12s before I put them away. That may help the next time I play them.

Which brings up another advantage: The blacks ones don't show fingerprints. They don't corrode or discolor; if you keep them in their cases between sessions, the finish will remain unscratched.

Lookin' good.

Tom

[Grizzly]

In time, you will notice little half moon rings of dry dark colored substance which is of a glassine texture not unlike Tetramin fish food flakes. It will fall from the holes or will loosen and appear like little semi circles sticking TO but be partially detached FROM the sides of the holes.

smo-joe (who found the cheapest way to travel..by truck inside a shipping crate)

Semi circular from round-holed mouthplates. Mine are more whitish. Then, I don't smoke.

Nice thing about CX 12s: They're easy to clean. Soak the case in warm water, then rinse. Use a soft brush for stubborn crescents.

Tom

[smojoe]

I am pretty good about keeping the mouthpieces clean. I carry a damp hankerchief and sometimes even play HOLDING it. I wipe the chromo down while others take a solo, and shine er up. My chromos are all Simonized. Sometimes I use the handkerchief as a bit of a mute. Especially when I'm holding the mike. In this circumstance it helps keep from bumping the back of the chromo against the mike and making that unprofessional 'clacking' sound.

smo-joe  (who has an answer for the high price of gas.......don't pay for it)

[rgn39]

Do you mean car wax? The covers on my SC56 get a dull look to them almost immediately after I polish them with a cloth and play a few minutes. This is the only one that does it. Kind of strange. I was wondering if I could put some polish or wax on it to keep it shiny.

[rgn39]

[/quote]
The wonk in me is compelled to point out that lips aren't made of skin. They're an extension of the mucous membrane that starts in the mouth.

Tom
[/quote]

Yuck. I think all the romance just went out of kissing for me.

[Eugene Ryan]

Hey Meisters,

Like yourselves, I am a fan of the CX12.  I've bought some in recent months and retuned them, and they are really airtight - I think more so I remembered them being before.

One thing I've found with the black cover is that the lips can drag on them, producing friction.  Normally this wouldn't be an issue, but recently I've been doing a lot of tongue blocking things on it, and one day the corners of my lips were pretty raw afterwards.  In fairness, this could also have been from playing tongue-blocking some older 270s and the Hohner XB40 around the same time.

I have the CX Jazz cover but not the inside of that harp and I find that the lips move more easily on it, due to whatever glossy coating it has.   It isn't *quite* as airtight as the black cover (almost, though - not bad in general) when combined with a standard CX12 body. This probably isn't to do with how far in the mouth it is or the black cover being the deciding factor in the embouchure, as I've experimented with different embouchures, pushed further into the mouth etc.  The Jazz cover may well fit the Jazz body a little better.  My feeling is that Hohner have changed tolerances in general, as the recent CX12 slides didn't need to be taped - in fact the slide wouldn't move very well when it was taped.  All in all, I'd say it's a good solution for people who don't like or have problems the shape of the black CX12 cover.

Eugene

[Grizzly]

Hi, Eugene, I'd say the abrasion you experienced was from the other harmonicas. I tongue block exclusively, and I've never had that problem.

As with any harmonica, saliva is the only lubricant available for mouthplates. Maybe because I'm a wet player, I don't have a problem with friction on a black case. It's a little different kind of "slick" than metal or paint, including my Gold and my Ivory CX 12s. But when I stop playing, the Black is fairly covered with slobber. (Sorry, Age, that's the only word that seems to fit.)

I'd say, let yourself heal, and try again.

Tom

[Mr.Man]

I think it's from the CX12 because I have experienced the same thing. The friction between the lips and cover made my lips kinda raw afterwards. I had to stop because it was getting to painfull actually.

However...this is my first chromatic and they are a lot bigger. I encountered the same problem with painfull lips when I started playing diatonic but that's over now. I guess the pain will go away after a while when I'm used to the shape of the harmonica.

*note...I only encountered this problem after playing for several hours..so it's not that weird  ..the only time that I knew that it was the harps fault was with the Seydel Big Six...Really nice (diatonic) harp but sharp!! I altered it a bit to get the harp less sharp..

I'd say the same as Tom though...let yourself heal, and try again  ..(or try right away and play blues...it's great when your in pain  )

-Rick-

[Eugene Ryan]

Hey fellas,

Thanks - it's healed up now and I'm ready to get back playing. 

Rick, I think you're right, it was after (a rare case, these days, of) playing for several hours.  Were you tongue blocking or puckering when this happened for you?

I was trying a reasonable amount of octave playing, as well as learning melodies in corner switching.  With a dry mouthpiece and the lips stretched like that, it was probably asking for trouble - I'm not sure I'd try the same thing on the CX12 immediately.  I'll try the CX12 Jazz cover for a while, puckering, then some tongue blocking, then the black cover puckering, then some tongue blocking if it feels ok.  It's a pity, as I've some nice CX12s (including some that I put a lot of sweat and time and mental anguish  into retuning), and I seem to be naturally moving over to tongue blocking playing more and more - so time will tell if that combination of things works together!

Like you say Tom, it may well have been the other harmonicas - some of them have reputations as being tough mouthpieces.

All the best,
Eugene

[Mr.Man]

Uhm...I think it is called a U-block what I do (making a kind of 'V' with your bottom lip and let the air go through that V)..Puckering is more or less a 'whistle-mouth'...with U-blocking you have your lips over the harp (hm...kinda hard to explain )..

It wasn't tongblocking that's for sure   

-Rick-

[Grizzly]

I don't U-block, but I've experimented with pucker. One of the things I like about tongue block, especially on the seamless CX 12, is that it takes less pressure against the lips to get a good seal, resulting in less jaw tension.

Tom

[Mr.Man]

You can say the same for U-block I guess ("One of the things I like about U-block, is that it takes less pressure against the lips to get a good seal, resulting in less jaw tension). I'm learning tongblocking on the diatonic first (working on it...to much saliva for my chromatic harp  )

Rick

[Grizzly]

Unfortunately, it seems to be all or nothing; pucker can dry you out, rubbing your tongue against the holes makes you salivate.

Lips can dry out, even on a black CX 12. I've found it necessary to wet my lips between phrases sometimes.

Bottom line: In both cases, you learn to deal.

Tom

[rgn39]

Im still curious why there is virtually no buildup on the plastic. I picked up my SC56 awhile ago and within a couple of minutes there was bulildup all over it while I had been playing the CX all  morning with no problem. Is it a chemical reaction or is it the roughness of the metal peeling stuff off?

[Vern]

 
[/quote]
So glad you like that cut! As for the slide noise, I agree, but I prefer it to the squeaky spring noise (preventable, I know) that pops up from time to time on my Suzukis. Most of the time I can prevent the Cx12 slide noise by not slamming the button, but once in a while I screw up. It really doesn't bother me that much, but I can see where it might drive some folks up a wall.

- Slim.
[/quote]

Many musical instruments have noises.  e.g. guitar strings squeak, sax valves slap, piano pedals thump, fiddles scritch, french horns burble, and of course...slides click.  These noises are always in time with the music and arguably add some characteristic charm.   

It's a little extra rythmic part of the music. Relax and enjoy it!

Vern
 

[smojoe]

If I want clicking, I'll get a set of 'claves'
joe the smokey

[Grizzly]

In another thread, I was talking about my CBH 2016 experience, and how I might have to reconsider playing mine in public.

Putting in a good session last night on my CX 12 "players"—Tenor and Gold—has me swinging back to making them my exclusive axes. Of all the harmonicas in my admittedly small stable, these are the ones I don't have to fight with to achieve my musical goals.

Tom

[rgn39]

Ive been playing around with my Hering Opus for awhile and doing little recordings with the Hering, Suzuki and the CX12 to explore the differences in sound. There is quite a difference. I dont think of it as plasticy as some here like to call it but the plastic housing certainly gives the CX a different tone than the metal housings. It seems that I can now play all of them now so my emphasis has changed from which one is easiest to play to which one sounds the best. I cannot make up my mind. They are different but I like them all.

[Grizzly]

Look to the volume under the case/covers for the differences in sound. Also, reed material is different, which may contribute to response, if not the overall sound.

Vern Smith has reported that even with custom made brass covers with the same contours, a CX 12 won't sound any different from one with a plastic case.

Tom

[Gnarly He Man]

Yup--
Solid brass cover made by Siegfried Nahrun of Berlin, Germany.
Gary

[rgn39]

Hmmm. Now youve got me wanting to experiment with covers.

[rgn39]

Hey Griz. Whats the deal with the gold? How is it different from the standard? Why is it worth another 75 bucks?

[Grizzly]

The Gold feels different in the mouth. It seems to slide around as well; but it is metal (albeit thin), not plastic. I also detect a slight metallic taste, but it's not objectionable.

The reedplates are thicker, which seems to enhance an already strong first octave. But if I did a blind test of both, you may have trouble distinguishing it from a standard Black. In fact, if I played my Tenor (with its unadvertised thicker reedplates) in the same octave, you might have trouble picking it out, too.

The Gold is flashier, and less easily mistaken for a kazoo. (That really happened to me.)

I might not have bought one, but I got a really good deal on a new one at about the price of a Black, before the prices skyrocketed. They're double of what I paid now.

The cover of the Black is easier to maintain; a quick swipe of a tissue is all it needs. The Gold really should be rinsed well; bodily fluids show more.

You may notice a difference between them when you play, but I doubt if an audience would. I use my Black for practice, the Gold for playing out. The Black is perfectly adequate, even as a performance instrument.

Is it worth the money difference? That's up to you. I hope this review helps.

Tom

[rgn39]

Thx. I was wondering if they had found some way to gold plate plastic.

[SlimHeilpern]

The Gold feels different in the mouth. It seems to slide around as well; but it is metal (albeit thin), not plastic. I also detect a slight metallic taste, but it's not objectionable.
...
Tom

Hi Tom -

I have an old gold that sure feels like plastic (albeit with some sort of metallic coating). And the Hohner site says it's plastic:

http://www.hohner.eu/index.php?426

Is yours really metal, you think?

- Slim.