Lekholm DM48 Fan Club

[Doug]

Yeah some good thinking Aimless , i would be a computer dummy to the power of ten, but strikes me this thing produces data/signals which are converted into sounds and that depends on programs/menus which require computer tech literacy, this would mean i am thinking that techniques would not be automatically transferable from a Chromatic, so new unfamiliar techniques would have to be learned on the Lekholm and again would be about the technology and adapting/experimenting/inventing ,this is time consuming and would probably be to the detriment of normal Chromatic practice.
                                     Electronic/digital wind instruments have been around for 50 years, such as Sax' and Clarinet , they don't seem to have made much inroads on the conventional instrument in that time, this Lekholm would seem to be a lot of fun and amusement for those with computer savvy, but it is a fake Chromatic harmonica , much the same as your voice would be processed the same way. These are just some thoughts right or wrong , the sound i admit can be quite impressive but however good the sound is it the sound of a Chromatic harmonica ?
                   Maybe A. J. can make up a new heading for the device, down beside the diatonic section.
                                                                                    jh.

Hey Jimmy, I’m surprised to hear your resistance to the DM48. You seem to really enjoy the lower range of the chromatic and prefer a 64. And yet, you’ve also said that most 64s aren’t able to reproduce those low notes well. The DM48 seems like a dream come true for you. You can have all the low notes you want sounding with depth and clarity. I understand that it wouldn’t be an actual reed producing acoustic sound, but it would give you glorious and resonant low notes of all kinds. I don’t know, it seems like this would be a great instrument for you, especially if it’s as easy to connect through an iPad or cell phone as Wendellfiddler says it is.

[Bernie9]

My main interest is mimicking different instruments, and on my keyboards(professional), I have several hundred.  When I want a harmonica sound, I use a real chromatic.

Different strokes.
Bernie

[llumagsara]

i'm happy i made the buy decision...  i see the DM48 as a complement, the same as a lot of people playing the acoustic and the midi version of an instrument, when i saw that i never think the player has to play one of them, i'm enjoying the player taking both. Practice in the night was the 1st thing i think before buy it, and i was right, that's a great advantage. Trying new tunings let you a real try, not an only in your mind try, also let you think (create) tunings for only one song, for example you play a song in C that also have two #, you can change the other 3 # in C next notes that give you the possibility of slide(s) ornament notes. You want to accompany a song that has 6 chords, you can make a tuning (bass-chord) that let you do the difficult parts combining the bass note chords with the three slides, so you haven't to do big precise jumps in the mouthpiece... you can write the tuning in musescore and introduce through a midi editing program in the DM48, so you haven't to stay tuning hole by hole in the digital chrome.

 Change octaves, key transpose lets you for example accompaning a song that you are hearing in a different key that the one you know, till you learn the new key. Makes a practice understand of changes keys, that thing when we read in SlideMeister, if you play a Bb chrome like you play a C chrome in F, sounds in Eb.

 Also that thing that are sounding adjacent holes let you know that your embouchure wasn't as watertight as you think, so DM48 is helping your chrome technique...

 Also the DM48 take you out of your comfort zone, you have to start to learning the midi thing, and that thing really costs me a lot and more with the linux thing, going slowly but in the learning state, position that i always like a lot.


good health


Agustín

[streetlegal]

Good arguments from the Lekholm players - I can see it has a lot of potential . And I think that it does qualify as a new kind of chromatic harmonica, though I still want to hear a clip of it playing in a harmonica voice - I've never heard a digital harmonica effect yet that sounded close to a real harmonica, whereas other instruments like the violin have been well modelled digitally.

[Wendellfiddler]

Good arguments from the Lekholm players - I can see it has a lot of potential . And I think that it does qualify as a new kind of chromatic harmonica, though I still want to hear a clip of it playing in a harmonica voice - I've never heard a digital harmonica effect yet that sounded close to a real harmonica, whereas other instruments like the violin have been well modelled digitally.

So far I think that's a problem (good harmonica sound).  I'm looking for a way to do that, including sampling my own harps.  I will say though that people often think when they hear me play (reeded harp of course) that I sound like a clarinet.  soo .....  there's that.

dt

[Hiro]

I like the DM48 a lot, but I think it is way too expensive.
I know it has a lot of work behind and it is made by a small company but I can't avoid comparing it with what you can get for that money in terms of controllers or even synths or musical instruments in general.

I know it is not a fair comparison but it is what comes to my head every time I think about getting one

If I was a rich man...

[Jimmy Halfnote]

Yeah some good thinking Aimless , i would be a computer dummy to the power of ten, but strikes me this thing produces data/signals which are converted into sounds and that depends on programs/menus which require computer tech literacy, this would mean i am thinking that techniques would not be automatically transferable from a Chromatic, so new unfamiliar techniques would have to be learned on the Lekholm and again would be about the technology and adapting/experimenting/inventing ,this is time consuming and would probably be to the detriment of normal Chromatic practice.
                                     Electronic/digital wind instruments have been around for 50 years, such as Sax' and Clarinet , they don't seem to have made much inroads on the conventional instrument in that time, this Lekholm would seem to be a lot of fun and amusement for those with computer savvy, but it is a fake Chromatic harmonica , much the same as your voice would be processed the same way. These are just some thoughts right or wrong , the sound i admit can be quite impressive but however good the sound is it the sound of a Chromatic harmonica ?
                   Maybe A. J. can make up a new heading for the device, down beside the diatonic section.
                                                                                    jh.

Hey Jimmy, I’m surprised to hear your resistance to the DM48. You seem to really enjoy the lower range of the chromatic and prefer a 64. And yet, you’ve also said that most 64s aren’t able to reproduce those low notes well. The DM48 seems like a dream come true for you. You can have all the low notes you want sounding with depth and clarity. I understand that it wouldn’t be an actual reed producing acoustic sound, but it would give you glorious and resonant low notes of all kinds. I don’t know, it seems like this would be a great instrument for you, especially if it’s as easy to connect through an iPad or cell phone as Wendellfiddler says it is.

 Thanks for thinking about me Doug, yeah on the surface it would seem a solution to playing consistently the low end of a 64, especially when old age robs you of wind, but i still saw my own logs from my own trees and though out of puff doing so, there is something about your own logs that bring a satisfaction , each time you put a few in the stove there is a connection that would be missing if instead commercial 'kiln dried' wood was used, now how do you describe the difference ?
                 Well, there is one really big limb of a tree that came down in a storm and got hung up high in a fork of the trunk, the opposite end had sunk into the meadow by about a foot and a half, it was kinda dangerous to work on by myself because it was also wanting to spin, i kept looking at it trying to figure how by myself it could be brought down, and i kept looking.. and looking... and thinking. To cut the story short i eventually bit by bit, week by week ( not full-time) brought the big awkward bugger down, this fellow now cut into logs is currently being used in our stove, i recognise them among all the others, plus they give a greater warmth than all the others.... now you could say that is just imagination.... maybe.

                                                             jh.

[SlideMeister]

Just rattling, I'm guessing the Lekholm is hand made in Sweeden, probably 3-D printed, one at a time, and not in China, where it would be a third of the cost. You could buy one now and be really cool or wait a few years till it gets knocked off and listed on Alibaba or whatever for 29 bucks! OTOH, (as the palm reader said  ) if it already is being made in China, yeah, it IS way too expensive. 

[Wendellfiddler]

Just rattling, I'm guessing the Lekholm is hand made in Sweeden, probably 3-D printed, one at a time, and not in China, where it would be a third of the cost. You could buy one now and be really cool or wait a few years till it gets knocked off and listed on Alibaba or whatever for 29 bucks! OTOH, (as the palm reader said  ) if it already is being made in China, yeah, it IS way too expensive. 

Yeah, in principle I think that is probably true.  As to the way they make them, I was told they used 3D printing to make the prototypes but their current covers are manufactured somehow by a local company - I assume no longer 3D printed.  Gotta be true that building it in volume would reduce the price substantially, but of course that sort of demand for a product made to be played like a chromatic harmonica would have to come from Europe or Asia.  Not enough of us in the US to make it happen.

dt

[Wendellfiddler]

I can appreciate the cost issue.  To me, it being unique (at least for the time being) my time with it now is worth more than money (within reason and without causing me to go hungry when I'm 95) - oh what the heck, I might want to go hungry when I'm 95. 

BTW, it does take less wind than an acoustic, but also pretty good ability to control the direction of that breath.  As Agustin said, it could be really good for refining one's articulation.   

dt

[llumagsara]

I can appreciate the cost issue.  To me, it being unique (at least for the time being) my time with it now is worth more than money (within reason and without causing me to go hungry when I'm 95) - oh what the heck, I might want to go hungry when I'm 95. 

BTW, it does take less wind than an acoustic, but also pretty good ability to control the direction of that breath.  As Agustin said, it could be really good for refining one's articulation.   

dt

i was lucky that i had the money saved up when the offer came out, at the moment i doubt but now i know it was a very good decision...

well they making it better, mine need more air i had to adjust the air ducts. They are working constantly to get better the thing, till now they do more than 10 updates to the software...


good health


Agustín

[Bernie9]

I thought long and hard about buying something unseen at this price, but I could see the advantage for me.  I use my chroms regularly in my arranger keyboard and vocal performances.  One reason is variety, but for me, it is also a way of bringing hundreds of tunes from my head to the audience without reading the score.  The DM48 allows me to introduce additional sounds in the same manner. As a breath controller, it brings more possibilities to my performance.  It might not be worth it for everyone, but it is a keeper for me.

Bernie

[llumagsara]

  I use my chroms regularly in my arranger keyboard and vocal performances. 

Bernie, if you add a cable with an external switch to the DM48 you can use it as a hand free slide, for example with the jaw like in this video:

good health

Agustín

[Bernie9]

Much obliged Agustin. The pictured holder is much more adjustable than the neck holders I have for my harms. There is a reference to not use these on the DM48 for fear of damaging the buttons etc. This is somewhat limiting to be sure, as I have to chord or play with one hand when I take a solo, or, I play over a backing track in some cases.

As far as a switch is concerned, I am not sure what you mean except switching to a midi channel assigned to the DM48.  In my case, I set up presets so that I can play the keyboard normally, except one of my leads is assigned to the DM48, allowing me to play either or both.

On my smaller harms, I prefer using magnetic holders attached to the mic stand, leaving me hands free. While the DM48 is good in some cases, it does not take the place of my good old chroms.

Bernie

[llumagsara]

As far as a switch is concerned, I am not sure what you mean except switching to a midi channel assigned to the DM48.  In my case, I set up presets so that I can play the keyboard normally, except one of my leads is assigned to the DM48, allowing me to play either or both.

Bernie

Bernie

i was thinking in a  cable that is conected (prolonging) to the contacts of the swicht-slide, then another swicht in the finish of the cable, so you can use normal or new slide. Then you have to adapt the new swicht to the neck rack so you can on-off it with the jaw. A little thin tablet with holes that coincide with DM48 buttons solve the rack holding problem...

good health

Agustín

[Bernie9]

Wow!  You are way over my head.  I am sure what you say is true, but I can only handle the basics. Thanks for the idea, maybe when I get more advanced.

Bernie

[llumagsara]

Wow!  You are way over my head.  I am sure what you say is true, but I can only handle the basics. Thanks for the idea, maybe when I get more advanced.

Bernie

look for a McGyver friend that can help you, if not the idea will get sleep...
another idea is making a mechanical device that push one of the upper buttons-slide, so you haven't to weld cable...

good health

Agustín

[Doug]

Good arguments from the Lekholm players - I can see it has a lot of potential . And I think that it does qualify as a new kind of chromatic harmonica, though I still want to hear a clip of it playing in a harmonica voice - I've never heard a digital harmonica effect yet that sounded close to a real harmonica, whereas other instruments like the violin have been well modelled digitally.

Here’s a tune by bassist Gary Willis with Steve Tavaglione playing EWI (Electronic Wind Instrument), which is a midi controller that I believe uses sax fingerings. I think the harmonica sound is convincing and would certainly fool any nonharmonica playing listeners. The main giveaway is a couple of fast runs that are just too clean and fast to be played on a chromatic.
https://youtu.be/1_lX4LAbYw4

[frankyb]

If you can't put it in your pocket and play it anywhere it is not a harmonica.

[SlideMeister]

Actually you CAN do that (from what I understand) but you gotta have an iPhone to go with it. 

[Pat Cat]

You can use an iPhone/Tablet or an Android phone/tablet

[frankyb]

O.K. I did not know it could work with a cell phone. Still, it lacks the total convenience of a chromatic harmonica.  More importantly, as they so honestly say on the DM48 site: "... the DM48 cannot replace or convincingly emulate an acoustic harmonica" (that does not mean  it can't make beautiful music.) I would reserve the term "chromatic harmonica" for the acoustic chromatic harmonica, but have no problem with their identifying the DM48 as a Digital or MIdi chromatic harmonica with the disclosures they have made and as the DM48 does share many characteristics with the chromatic harmonica.  I will be happy with whatever final decision Age makes, as to its inclusion on this site. 

[jasonic]

Hey folks! I just posted a video featuring the DM on the "show us your YouTube" section of this forum.
Just to let ya know..😁

[wolfman]

  Thank you. 8

  Roman

[Wendellfiddler]

Played my DM 48 for about 8 hours this week, with earbuds about half the time and live small amp the other 4 hours.  The technique required to play faster tunes is mostly about extreme precision and it seems to be good for my overall development.  It's a pleasure not to have to stop to clean valves or slides - but at the same time it isn't the same as a standard chrome.  Being able to play for extended practice time without hardware issues and silently has helped me learn several tunes already.  Lately that's been refinement of skylark and working on details in other tunes. 

Still happy I made the move and learning more about the relationship between the device and the software you play it through.  I'm striving to find the best way to get a similar feel and response to a regular chrome and I have been surprised at relevant the sounds I try are to that cause.  Oddly, it isn't about the sound that comes through but the response.  I'm mostly using an app on an iPad called "Heavy Brass".  With that software I seem to get the best response from the sax sound and the trombone sound.  I have been surprised at different the response is depending on the synthesized sound.  I expected that every sound would feel and respond the same and just literally sound different, but I haven't found that to be the case.  The most responsive, and similar to regular chrome in that regard seems lately to be the trombone sound.  Go figure? 

doug tanner

[SlimHeilpern]

...
Still happy I made the move and learning more about the relationship between the device and the software you play it through.  I'm striving to find the best way to get a similar feel and response to a regular chrome and I have been surprised at relevant the sounds I try are to that cause.  Oddly, it isn't about the sound that comes through but the response.  I'm mostly using an app on an iPad called "Heavy Brass".  With that software I seem to get the best response from the sax sound and the trombone sound.  I have been surprised at different the response is depending on the synthesized sound.  I expected that every sound would feel and respond the same and just literally sound different, but I haven't found that to be the case.  The most responsive, and similar to regular chrome in that regard seems lately to be the trombone sound.  Go figure? 

doug tanner

So, "response" in the synth world (and your are playing a synthesizer) generally comes down to two factors: latency and amplitude envelope. The former you won't have a lot of control over. Latency is due to a combination of hardware (iPad), it's audio drivers, and the processing that's happening in software (combination of CPU speed as well as how well the code is written for the particular software synth you're using). The latter has to do with the settings of each synth patch. So it may be that the trombone is set for fast attack. Some soft synths allow you to tweak this (any pro-level synth would). There may also be a slow attack built into some of the samples that are being triggered, and you would have no control over that.

Hope this helps to shed a bit of light on the subject...

- Slim

[jasonic]

This is a tune I recorded using an iPad and the Korg iM1 app. All the bends etc are done pretty much the same way as a harp, and can be adjusted to bend as deep as you like. I keep it pretty close to a half step. The Korg app has really minimal latency, but when using an external module there’s really no latency at all, at least with the ones I’m using. Now that you can adjust the velocity as well as the breath sensitivity (newest firmware upgrade) guitar patches and keyboard patches are now much more fun to play, all the modulation, attack, etc is done with your breath, like a harp. The Christmas gigs I’m playing are now 60% DM, the rest chromatic. The horn sounds are more versatile than a harmonica only option, especially when you’re playing for many hours. People have been going nuts over it, frankly. And on cold nights...no sticking valves!

https://youtu.be/UCHhNWEwVhw

[Wendellfiddler]

So, "response" in the synth world (and your are playing a synthesizer) generally comes down to two factors: latency and amplitude envelope. The former you won't have a lot of control over. Latency is due to a combination of hardware (iPad), it's audio drivers, and the processing that's happening in software (combination of CPU speed as well as how well the code is written for the particular software synth you're using). The latter has to do with the settings of each synth patch. So it may be that the trombone is set for fast attack. Some soft synths allow you to tweak this (any pro-level synth would). There may also be a slow attack built into some of the samples that are being triggered, and you would have no control over that.

Hope this helps to shed a bit of light on the subject...

- Slim
[/quote]

Yes, Slim, thank you - what you say makes a lot of sense - at least the part I understand - it confirms that what I'm experiencing is really there and  not my imagination.  I appreciate your explanation.  I'm not likely to go to much extreme in terms of synths but it helps to understand that there is a latency difference between sounds and software - not something I would have expected but really there.  When I use Reason software on a windows notebook the latency is more extreme - same concept I suppose.  It has a ton of adjustments but I haven't put the time in to understanding them.  None of the software I'm using costs much - heavy brass might have been $10?  I like it's sounds better for the harmonica than the garageband sounds that are built in or free for the ipad and the newer iphones.  However Garageband has easy adjustments for attack that are labeled as such.  I will have to work more with the adjustments there are in Heavy brass to see if I can change the attack some. 

dt

[Wendellfiddler]

This is a tune I recorded using an iPad and the Korg iM1 app. All the bends etc are done pretty much the same way as a harp, and can be adjusted to bend as deep as you like. I keep it pretty close to a half step. The Korg app has really minimal latency, but when using an external module there’s really no latency at all, at least with the ones I’m using. Now that you can adjust the velocity as well as the breath sensitivity (newest firmware upgrade) guitar patches and keyboard patches are now much more fun to play, all the modulation, attack, etc is done with your breath, like a harp. The Christmas gigs I’m playing are now 60% DM, the rest chromatic. The horn sounds are more versatile than a harmonica only option, especially when you’re playing for many hours. People have been going nuts over it, frankly. And on cold nights...no sticking valves!

https://youtu.be/UCHhNWEwVhw

haha, Christmas Music being what it is - lovely often slower tunes - well suited to the 48 - and if you have to play outside - Yeah.

dt

[SlimHeilpern]

Yes, Slim, thank you - what you say makes a lot of sense - at least the part I understand - it confirms that what I'm experiencing is really there and  not my imagination.  I appreciate your explanation.  I'm not likely to go to much extreme in terms of synths but it helps to understand that there is a latency difference between sounds and software - not something I would have expected but really there.  When I use Reason software on a windows notebook the latency is more extreme - same concept I suppose.  It has a ton of adjustments but I haven't put the time in to understanding them.  None of the software I'm using costs much - heavy brass might have been $10?  I like it's sounds better for the harmonica than the garageband sounds that are built in or free for the ipad and the newer iphones.  However Garageband has easy adjustments for attack that are labeled as such.  I will have to work more with the adjustments there are in Heavy brass to see if I can change the attack some. 

dt

Keep in mind that the audio interface on your Windows box is likely the biggest culprit (as opposed to Reason). I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're just using the built-in audio interface on that box, which will tend to not only have high latency but be a bit noisy as well. Using a pro-level (doesn't have to be crazy expensive) USB audio interface (check the lower range from Tascam or MOTU) can make a huge difference, depending on how bad the built in audio is on your particular computer. If I'm wrong, and you already have a low-latency audio interface, please disregard :-).

If you're already using a USB audio interface, then check it's settings, sometimes you can lower the latency (at the risk of experiencing dropouts, all depends on things like CPU capability and workload, etc...

When you're making music in real time, the computer doesn't have the luxury to buffer up the sound it's generating in advance -- it doesn't know what note or notes you're going to hit next. Try to imagine the computing power required to produce a complex synthesized tone in software in less than 1 millisecond -- it's amazing this stuff works at all :-). Way back in the 90's I was on a team that created one of the first pro-level Windows-based software synths -- that's the only reason I know something about this stuff. It was so much harder to achieve low latency then, before CPU's became so powerful.

- Slim