Author Topic: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club  (Read 34887 times)

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Online llumagsara

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2019, 02:32:44 PM »
my experience with the audio interface i had is that i only could use Helm synth with no latence. I used an external usb Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 and things changed for better but i had a little of latence in some software. I went for an inner old Creative Audigy, my motherboard still has two PCI connections, and now i can play any of the lot of free possibilities Linux has, well the only ones that i understand a minimum...


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Offline Wendellfiddler

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #61 on: December 13, 2019, 07:03:41 PM »
Yes, Slim, thank you - what you say makes a lot of sense - at least the part I understand - it confirms that what I'm experiencing is really there and  not my imagination.  I appreciate your explanation.  I'm not likely to go to much extreme in terms of synths but it helps to understand that there is a latency difference between sounds and software - not something I would have expected but really there.  When I use Reason software on a windows notebook the latency is more extreme - same concept I suppose.  It has a ton of adjustments but I haven't put the time in to understanding them.  None of the software I'm using costs much - heavy brass might have been $10?  I like it's sounds better for the harmonica than the garageband sounds that are built in or free for the ipad and the newer iphones.  However Garageband has easy adjustments for attack that are labeled as such.  I will have to work more with the adjustments there are in Heavy brass to see if I can change the attack some. 

dt

Keep in mind that the audio interface on your Windows box is likely the biggest culprit (as opposed to Reason). I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're just using the built-in audio interface on that box, which will tend to not only have high latency but be a bit noisy as well. Using a pro-level (doesn't have to be crazy expensive) USB audio interface (check the lower range from Tascam or MOTU) can make a huge difference, depending on how bad the built in audio is on your particular computer. If I'm wrong, and you already have a low-latency audio interface, please disregard :-).

If you're already using a USB audio interface, then check it's settings, sometimes you can lower the latency (at the risk of experiencing dropouts, all depends on things like CPU capability and workload, etc...

When you're making music in real time, the computer doesn't have the luxury to buffer up the sound it's generating in advance -- it doesn't know what note or notes you're going to hit next. Try to imagine the computing power required to produce a complex synthesized tone in software in less than 1 millisecond -- it's amazing this stuff works at all :-). Way back in the 90's I was on a team that created one of the first pro-level Windows-based software synths -- that's the only reason I know something about this stuff. It was so much harder to achieve low latency then, before CPU's became so powerful.

- Slim

Wow!  that's great information.  So it's a little like what happens if you try to use bluetooth earbuds with it - extreme latency that is completely obvious.  And yes, of course I am just using the interface in the laptop.  There must be a better audio interface in the ipad and iphone because it is much more functional  - really no problem without any additional audio support.  I don't need to be able use the windows machine for this - and other than the fact that it requires no adapters because the 48 plugs in with a usb connector, it's clunky - bigger, less battery life, etc.  It's way easier to use on the ipad.  I wasn't surprised that it worked better on the ipad since every audio engineer I know uses mac stuff rather than windows.

dt
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 07:05:44 PM by Wendellfiddler »
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Offline SlimHeilpern

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2019, 07:29:20 PM »
...
It's way easier to use on the ipad.  I wasn't surprised that it worked better on the ipad since every audio engineer I know uses mac stuff rather than windows.

dt

It's not just the windows boxes, while the mac laptop audio is pretty good, it's still not going to give you the kind of low latency and noise-free experience that you'd get with a good external interface. Probably true to at least some extent for the iPad as well, but it's wonderful that it's good enough to suit your needs.

There are other reasons why most audio engineers use macs, I'm sure, as they are almost certainly all using external audio interfaces anyway. One of the reasons they use an external interface being for multi-track capability, and another is that in addition to higher latency with the built-in audio electronics, there are other components on the motherboard that can interfere with the audio signal, often causing a very low volume (so most folks don't notice) high pitched kind of whine. And when you're working with professional monitors or headphones, you can hear it.

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Offline Wendellfiddler

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2019, 10:12:24 PM »
Thanks, Slim.  Very helpful information.  I knew nothing about audio interfaces.  Hopefully it won't result in a shopping trip.  haha.  Could you use one with an iPad?  One of the limitations of the iPad is lack of connecting ports.  Maybe someday if I ever got a real computer? 

dt
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Offline SlimHeilpern

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2019, 10:58:05 PM »
Thanks, Slim.  Very helpful information.  I knew nothing about audio interfaces.  Hopefully it won't result in a shopping trip.  haha.  Could you use one with an iPad?  One of the limitations of the iPad is lack of connecting ports.  Maybe someday if I ever got a real computer? 

dt

Yes, Tascam makes one (and I think others do as well) that will work with an iPad, iPhone, or a computer via USB. But not sure how you would then plug in the DM48, maybe there's a USB hub for iPad, I haven't had to deal with that (yet, and don't own a DM48, yet). I've used the Tascam one with my iPhone, but only for recording, so I haven't had reason to check the latency. Maybe someone else here has...

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Offline jasonic

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #65 on: December 14, 2019, 03:17:49 AM »
Thanks, Slim.  Very helpful information.  I knew nothing about audio interfaces.  Hopefully it won't result in a shopping trip.  haha.  Could you use one with an iPad?  One of the limitations of the iPad is lack of connecting ports.  Maybe someday if I ever got a real computer? 

dt

Yes, Tascam makes one (and I think others do as well) that will work with an iPad, iPhone, or a computer via USB. But not sure how you would then plug in the DM48, maybe there's a USB hub for iPad, I haven't had to deal with that (yet, and don't own a DM48, yet). I've used the Tascam one with my iPhone, but only for recording, so I haven't had reason to check the latency. Maybe someone else here has...

- Slim
All you need is the usb to lightning adapter, no interface is needed. The DM is powered easily by the iPad itself. Korg makes an app called the iM1 that can be upgraded to work specifically with breath controllers, via Matt Traums site, but any app that can interpret MIDI will work fine with it. There’s a touch more latency than an external module, but it’s minimal.
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Offline SlimHeilpern

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #66 on: December 14, 2019, 09:21:01 AM »
All you need is the usb to lightning adapter, no interface is needed. The DM is powered easily by the iPad itself. Korg makes an app called the iM1 that can be upgraded to work specifically with breath controllers, via Matt Traums site, but any app that can interpret MIDI will work fine with it. There’s a touch more latency than an external module, but it’s minimal.

Good to know, I've never tested the built-in audio output for latency or cleanliness. I have used an external audio interface with my iPhone for recording clean, uncompressed stereo and have simply assumed that the quality would also be better in the other direction (on either an iPhone or iPad). And I do see that there are USB hubs available for the iPad, so one would hope that this would allow the DM48 to be used along side an external audio interface, should the need arise (for either lower latency, cleaner audio, or perhaps multi-track support).

But this is all speculation on my part, so I should probably shut up ;-).

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Offline jasonic

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #67 on: December 14, 2019, 12:06:30 PM »
Slim, you should never shut up. You have too much good info and talent in that brain. If you come down to LA you can try out my various rigs for the DM, it’ll be fun, and we can scrutinize the nuts and bolts of it all. Cheeers!
Don't think-just play! ;-)

Offline SlimHeilpern

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #68 on: December 14, 2019, 12:17:53 PM »
Slim, you should never shut up. You have too much good info and talent in that brain. If you come down to LA you can try out my various rigs for the DM, it’ll be fun, and we can scrutinize the nuts and bolts of it all. Cheeers!

That does sound like fun! Perhaps in early January, will contact you about this soon....
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Offline Pat Cat

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2019, 09:08:29 AM »
I am currently at stage 4 above a beginner.
I know the left side of the harmonica make low notes (providing you don’t have the harmonica upside down)
I know the right side make high notes
I know the button changes the note
I know there are tons of different brands, shapes and keys
I have a CX-12 “C” and apparently am a very wet player. Constant battle with sticking windsavers and of course I only had the one chromatic harmonica and the songs I like to play would need 3 or 4 different keys.
About a year ago (early November 2018) I had printed out some info on the DM48 (was just curious, that’s all just curious) the info was laying on my desk. Well my wife found it and the family got together and bought me one for Christmas last year (they thought it would be a surprise – boy was it).
They didn’t realize that you also need software to use this thing, which I knew nothing about!!!!
So off to the handy dandy internet. Well I wanted it to sound like a chromatic harmonica (well as close to one as possible).
Looked like the closest I would get for now is Chris Hein Chromatic Harmonica software using it with Kontakt 6 Full version. (Age let me know if I can say this, if not I will delete this portion)
I know this will never sound as good as a real chromatic harmonica, but it does offer unlimited practice time with no warming up and no sticking windsavers. It also offers every key with a push of a button (Chromatic and Diatonic)
So here is my offering in the spirit of Christmas
Let there be peace on earth – DM48 key F# ----- remember I not very good and this is not going to sound as good as you guys/gals using real harmonicas
youtu.be/Iaw7QNzWlrg

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #70 on: December 17, 2019, 10:15:53 AM »
Sounds like You’ve got it going on!

Offline jklessard

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #71 on: January 18, 2020, 07:34:19 PM »
Mike Turk played at my place (we're a restaurant with a jazz room) here in Cambridge last Sunday, and he brought a DM48, which a friend had bought for him. I am very partial to his playing on the Renny, but this was really cool, too! He played it using the flute midi sound and a clarinet midi sound. I really loved it, and the audience were captivated by it, all staring at the stage as he played. (Believe me, since we are a restaurant/club, we don't always get listeners.) This coming Tuesday, I'm going over to his condo to help him make some videos of him on it. Anyone who knows him will realize that his true love is the Renaissance chromatic harmonica, but he said that this is really fun for him. You can watch him here:
   ---Note: I am not trying to sell a product because we don't serve sushi in the mail. I just want you to see Mike Turk play with the DM48!

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #72 on: January 18, 2020, 08:40:48 PM »
This is great!
Keep posting videos when they become available, I want to hear Roni play that quarter tone harmonica!

Offline SlideMeister

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #73 on: January 18, 2020, 09:04:59 PM »
Nice job! (and the "leghorn" is considerably cheaper the the Renny, eh?) ;D

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #74 on: January 19, 2020, 05:38:06 PM »
Nice job! (and the "leghorn" is considerably cheaper the the Renny, eh?) ;D

Thanks for the video.  I have mixed feelings about how the DM48 sounded.  At times quite nice, at other times, a little bit screechy.  Love the Renny. Excellent playing by all. 

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #75 on: January 19, 2020, 06:21:10 PM »
I like mostly the sax and trumpet sounds. ;D

Offline Brendan Power

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #76 on: January 21, 2020, 11:21:37 PM »
Erik has put up some nice new videos of the DM48 at the NAMM Show, played by a variety of musicians vising the booth. Here are some:

ANDY WILSON & JASON KEENE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYJ5OjCAZHY

RONI EYTAN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEDujCDAuvM

PETER MADCAT RUTH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO5j8D_Ieos

YOURS TRULY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWnDN_QzUhc

No doubt he'll have more coming soon,

Brendan


Offline Wendellfiddler

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #77 on: January 23, 2020, 07:36:17 AM »
A whole bunch of marvelous musicians there.  I can see some difference between those that have used the DM48 before and are used to it vs first timers. It does take a little getting used to.  I'm still primarily using mine as a silent practice tool, but someday I'm try it in the outside world!  Still very pleased with it.

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Offline Brendan Power

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #78 on: January 23, 2020, 08:36:33 AM »
And here's another one, with Steve Malerbi on drums:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WEL1ns5k9Y

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2020, 03:42:23 PM »
O.K. I did not know it could work with a cell phone. Still, it lacks the total convenience of a chromatic harmonica.  More importantly, as they so honestly say on the DM48 site: "... the DM48 cannot replace or convincingly emulate an acoustic harmonica" (that does not mean  it can't make beautiful music.) I would reserve the term "chromatic harmonica" for the acoustic chromatic harmonica, but have no problem with their identifying the DM48 as a Digital or MIdi chromatic harmonica with the disclosures they have made and as the DM48 does share many characteristics with the chromatic harmonica.  I will be happy with whatever final decision Age makes, as to its inclusion on this site.

I now understand that the DM48 will work with a cellphone. If you are playing for others I assume you would also need a speaker and ? amplifier?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 04:02:46 PM by frankyb »

Offline Brendan Power

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2020, 04:27:43 PM »
Yes, just attach a 1/4 inch adaptor to the mini-jack cable which comes out of the phone to feed it into a guitar amp or mixer desk.

You should only use Apple phones or iPads however - Android has too much latency, so you will notice a slight lag in the response. Not so with Apple gear.

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #81 on: January 23, 2020, 04:41:24 PM »
O.K. I did not know it could work with a cell phone. Still, it lacks the total convenience of a chromatic harmonica.  More importantly, as they so honestly say on the DM48 site: "... the DM48 cannot replace or convincingly emulate an acoustic harmonica" (that does not mean  it can't make beautiful music.) I would reserve the term "chromatic harmonica" for the acoustic chromatic harmonica, but have no problem with their identifying the DM48 as a Digital or MIdi chromatic harmonica with the disclosures they have made and as the DM48 does share many characteristics with the chromatic harmonica.  I will be happy with whatever final decision Age makes, as to its inclusion on this site.


Thanks Brendan.
I now understand that the DM48 will work with a cellphone. If you are playing for others I assume you would also need a speaker and ? amplifier?

Offline SlideMeister

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #82 on: January 23, 2020, 05:43:37 PM »
Yeah, mine is an Android. Obamaphones don't come in iPhone format. ;D

Offline Wendellfiddler

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2020, 09:23:56 AM »
But to be fair - I have had much better results - basically easier to get good sound - using an iPad rather than an iPhone. Can't speak to android, but there is an app I use on the iPad that isn't available for the phone.  It has a lot of great sounds and very little latency.  The sounds that are available using garage band on an iphone are more limited.  If you only have a phone to use with it you might be disappointed - or not.  It is convenient when travelling, etc. Like if I wanted to practice on a long road trip (while wife is driving).

People who invest the time into learning other software are getting great results with other things, but I'm happy with a very simple and cheap ipad app called "heavy brass".  It requires very little tweaking and no major understanding of how this stuff works (slim has laid out some great information about how and why there is latency and what to do about it, but even since I have learned more about it I still find the simplist solution is the best for me). 

doug tanner

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Offline Pat Cat

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #84 on: January 24, 2020, 10:25:45 AM »
For the Android phone and tablet, Audio Evolution Mobile App works pretty good. I think it's about $8.00

Offline SlimHeilpern

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #85 on: January 25, 2020, 09:48:04 AM »
Yeah, mine is an Android. Obamaphones don't come in iPhone format. ;D

Age, I know you're trying to be funny, but I have no idea what you mean by that. Care to elaborate? (Or would that violate your own rules?)

:-)

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Offline SlideMeister

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #86 on: January 25, 2020, 01:08:04 PM »
No humor intended.  :-X  If you apply for a free "government" phone, they don't offer iPhones; just Androids. Which is otherwise fine with me, cuz I seldom use the silly thing anyway.

Offline SlimHeilpern

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2020, 01:44:35 PM »
No humor intended.  :-X  If you apply for a free "government" phone, they don't offer iPhones; just Androids. Which is otherwise fine with me, cuz I seldom use the silly thing anyway.

Oh I see. Didn't know there was such a thing as a free government phone, hence my confusion.
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Offline Mike Turk

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #88 on: March 07, 2020, 10:54:00 PM »
I didn't realize this got posted in the forum here.

This was my first outing with the thing. I'm using Thumbjam in an Ipad. It's a bit wonky with some latency. still getting used to the slide button settings. I do not understand the principles of synth music.


I tried the Yamaha Vl 70 with factory chip but, all the sounds seem very un-natural to me. i listened to the mp3 sampler of the updated chip....was not impressed with those either. So, because the 12 hole is in the same range as the C flute, it only seems natural to stay with that concept
 Yes, the DM 48 is less expensive than a Renny but, I'm not certain how far I want go on spending for all the necessary electronics, modules , etc....and then carting all that stuff around.
 Right now I 'll continue trying it out on the Ipad ....BTW, Ipad GarageBand really stinks for sound choices.
I like being a flute for a change of pace right now.

Not sure where this is going.

 

Offline jasonic

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Re: Lekholm DM48 Fan Club
« Reply #89 on: March 08, 2020, 09:14:59 PM »
As one of the guys that absolutely loves this new toy- I thought I’d weigh in on a few things. This is just my own personal observations and experience with the DM48, and nothing else.
My most used set up is two Vl70’s linked with a midi cable- and then put through a mixer. Both Vl70’s are the upgraded versions tweaked by Matt Traum, I’ve never used the stock version so I wouldn’t be able to comment on it. What the dual setup allows me to do is play the head (melody) of a tune with various double horn sounds- my favorites being a Getz-like patch combined with a cornet patch, and a Brecker-like patch combined with a different trumpet sound. But then I can instantly switch to a sax only sound, or a trumpet, or a clarinet which allows me to play different solos within the same tune- and even doing a bit of back and forth on the later verses. For performing solo with backing tracks this has been a major hit at the gigs I play, and has expanded my overall concept of soloing somewhat- as I try to emulate the specific instrument I’m using at the time, and vary it accordingly. It’s also boatloads of fun. I think it’s fair to say that the patches don’t sound exactly the instruments they are emulating, but I’ve had more than one professional horn player come up to me at a gig and marvel at how good the patches sound. Do they sound exactly like the real thing? No. Do they sound good? Well, that’s subjective but the overall response has been extremely positive, and frequently amazement. Many of my private parties and events are being solely executed with the DM lately, for no other reason than they heard me using it at a gig and that’s what they want at their event. So I break up the evening with real chromatic, but the variety of sounds throughout the evening really spices up the gig, both for the listeners and myself.
I do use an iPad for some situations, mostly for practice- but I have used an app from Korg called the iM1 that I purchased an upgrade from Matt Traum specifically for breath controllers that works really well, and sounds good. There is a touch of latency with it, but after a year of playing through this app I don’t even notice it. And when I’m using the sounds as a pad- like a B3 sound or a spacey synth sound any minor lag becomes unimportant as I’m using the sound as a wash, rather than rapid flurry of notes. The iM1 can also be programmed to implement a hold button, which enables chord stacks, and sustain features just like a keyboard pedal.
I totally respect the folks that say it’s too fiddly, requires more money invested, and is too complicated versus the plain old chromatic which one can plunk in a pocket and whip out anywhere. I have yet to use the DM at a jam session, or when I’m invited to play onstage as a guest artist. And the feel of a real reed being vibrated is uniquely satisfying, and still my preference. I LOVE the chromatic harmonica, period. But I have to say my ability to book gigs has improved as a direct result of being able to use more varied sounds throughout an evening of music. Examples:

Bluesette: I play the real chromatic
Black Orpheus: I use a flute sound
Bei Mir bist du schoen: I use a clarinet sound, and then a tuba in the middle of the tune, which people find hilarious.
Boplicity: I use a dual horn sound, sax and trumpet, and then go back and forth during solos, finally ending with the dual horn sound.
Let’s get lost: I use a trumpet sound ala Chet Baker for the whole tune.
Candy: I start off with a trumpet (I love lee Morgan’s version) and then use a sax sound on the second part of the verse. Then combine them for the last part of the verse.
Wave: back to the real chromatic
If someone requests a tune I’ve already played, I’ll use a different sound for variety. It’s fun!
Sorry about this long post, I’m gonna put up a video illustrating some of these things pretty soon.
Cheers!
Don't think-just play! ;-)