Key of D

[Gnarly He Man]

...
Winslow has this thing he does with keys, where you first play the scale without the accidentals--so Dm with a sixth, Dorian--and then add the button pushes--the major third, the major seventh--so you learn the pattern separate from the button moves.

Interesting, but if I understand the concept correctly it doesn't make a lot of sense for flat keys.

Pretty sure he was talking about sharp keys.

[Gene Oh]

Beads said:
"I studied C, F, Bb, Eb, and then G, in that order.  Each one seemed easier to learn. All of those keys sound good to me on the chrome for the simple tunes I play. Then came D. I am struggling to get a smooth flow of notes."

According to my experience, the key of D is difficult BECAUSE this key has "Do, Mi, Sol, La" as DRAW notes. That makes me out of breath. 
Gene
   

[smojoe]

Yes, actually you CAN 'Tank up' playing some tunes in D. When you breathe out you can always seem to get a bit more breath OUT. Even if insignificant. But when breathing IN, once you get to a certain lung capacity, it is hard to FORCE more air IN.

Which comes full circle to what I always say. Study the tune first.
Count Joseph of Lentini

[jameshb3]

Ok then, if I were to have a choice of harp say in the key of A handy and that harp was a “56” and I liked to play along with a backing track of R & B, would that be a combination of harp and key that would help the process of learning the more difficult keys to play in?

[Gnarly He Man]

Nobody makes a 14 hole in A.

[SlideMeister]

Nobody makes a 14 hole in A.

No, but wouldn't it be cool if someone did?

[Gnarly He Man]

Nobody makes a 14 hole in A.

No, but wouldn't it be cool if someone did?

I could turn a 14 into an A, but it would still start on G3.
If you catch my meaning, if you get my drift . . .
I mean, you could tune everything down a minor third, but that would be more work than most folks would want to pay for.
12 hole in A starts on A3, that should be good enough for 9 out of 10 players . . .

[Grizzly]

Nobody makes a 14 hole in A.

Agreed, but a 12 hole in A covers three notes below a C, which may be sufficient in some cases. It puts the key of D in a C harmonica's F position, an easy pattern, and takes the D scale down to an A. Not only that, it gives an alternate slide-in blow D. The As would be blows with the slide out, but there would be alternate draw As with the slide in.

A 12 in D would be close to the range of a Tenor, maybe too low for some players. But Seydel offers a high D.

Tom

[jameshb3]

Got it....something ventured, nothing gained  😳 So to take all this info (D) what are the  better choices of keys to play in with R&B tracks.  Ab, Eb?

[Gnarly He Man]

A 12 in D would be close to the range of a Tenor, maybe too low for some players. But Seydel offers a high D.

Tom

Again, Goldilocks says the regular D is too low and the high D is too high.
But the Orchestra D is just right . . .
Nevertheless, I have decided I need to start bringing the 16 hole I retuned to D Bebop starting on C3 to gigs, since I have it--it's not going to play itself . . . and it's the right tuning for string players. Although not if they tune down a half step, like the guy I am currently playing with on Sundays.

[Gnarly He Man]

Got it....something ventured, nothing gained  😳 So to take all this info (D) what are the  better choices of keys to play in with R&B tracks.  Ab, Eb?

Gotta say, depends on the tune. I wouldn't think sharps keys, but some are--

[Jimmy Halfnote]

 Excuse me coming back to the key of G , which i find a bit clumsy on a solo tuned C chromatic, i may have stumbled across one of the reasons tonight ( or not) and it involves the 7th degree , namely F# leading to the G , a draw slide in to a blow slide out, on the other hand Ab has..... G  leading to the Ab, both blow just a simple slide in ( gives a trill also), any thoughts anyone ? Just to bring back the topic heading , the key of D also has an awkward 7th to tonic .... C# to D again slide and breath changes.

                                                                      jh.

                                     

[Gnarly He Man]

I think (partially) in positions—and G and Ab have the same moves, except of course that the slide note is a different breath direction and on different holes.

[Jimmy Halfnote]

 Taking it one step back in G , the 6th, 7th and tonic = E blow slide out, F# draw slide in, G blow slide out ( different hole) , if in Ab = F , G, Ab , all on the blow using F blow........... now try the two in comparison for speed and fluency........ backwards also don't forget......... there is quite a difference.

        Sorry Gary i couldn't make sense of your post, but it is early over here.

                                                                              jh.

[Gnarly He Man]

Taking it one step back in G , the 6th, 7th and tonic = E blow slide out, F# draw slide in, G blow slide out ( different hole) , if in Ab = F , G, Ab , all on the blow using F blow........... now try the two in comparison for speed and fluency........ backwards also don't forget......... there is quite a difference.

        Sorry Gary i couldn't make sense of your post, but it is early over here.

                                                                              jh.

The major scale in G is blow, draw, draw, blow, draw, blow, draw button, blow.
The major scale in Ab is the same, except you press the button first and only release it for the major seventh.

[Gnarly He Man]

So Ab is more legato because you don’t have to switch holes for the button note, also the F has an enharmonic and so can be played blow or draw.

[Jimmy Halfnote]

So Ab is more legato because you don’t have to switch holes for the button note, also the F has an enharmonic and so can be played blow or draw.

 Yep, plus not forgetting half-step slide trills , i never use them at all except for maybe a three note combination 7th-tonic-7th or tonic-7th- tonic , it is worth noting that on all the considered awkward keys ( A,D, E ,B and for me G) , no half-step slide trill is available between the 7th and the tonic , also you could say the 7th is a resolving kinda note to the tonic , so if it is clumsy the melodic can be compromised along with phrasing, timing and flow.
                    The other problem i see with G on a solo tuned C Chromatic, is the advice bandied about by well meaning folk that G is an easy key to learn first along with C and F .......this comes about because there is only one slide movement and many inexperienced posters consider the less slide movements the easier the key........ not so.

                                                     jh.

[smojoe]

Why do we keep doing this? Study the tune. Ab may be more legato because that's the way the tune flows on the harmonica. In other cases Ab may suck. Same with ANY key. The key isn't as important as the way the notes flow. I know key of D tunes that are easy on a C tuned harp. I also know tunes in C that don't 'feel right' on a C tuned harp.
 
the count of no account

[Jimmy Halfnote]

 We keep doing it Smo-Joe because tunes are not composed with a Chromatic in C as a priority ( solo tuned) , which is also the reason some chose alternative tunings or others might use different keyed harmonicas, you can study a tune as much as you like, practice it as much as you like but going from the 7th to tonic is sure to crop up if the tune has to played in G, which means a slide change, breath change and hole change,the 7th is not called the leading note for nothing, it leads to the tonic, except in some cases it leads clumsily, nothing wrong with talking it through and giving it thought, something might click for somebody.

                                                                        jh.

[smojoe]

Yes Jimmy, I agree. One would think that since G is only ONE sharp that it would be easy. And though I learned D first, I think that after C (the mother key), it is easier to go into flat keys than sharp keys. And for me G is a bit clumbsier than D.

Count Yosef 

[harp_unstrung]

Well - this is an amazing version of a great tune - Toots had no issues with double-timing at a pretty good clip the key of D (no surprises there ... )

[frankyb]

Terrific!

[SlideMeister]

Zowie! Just like shakin' a stick.

[Bernie9]

As a side note,it is a shame that Elis Regina died at age 36 from a drug overdose.  What a talented jazz singer.

[Gnarly He Man]

As a side note,it is a shame that Elis Regina died at age 36 from a drug overdose.  What a talented jazz singer.

Charming!
https://youtu.be/E1tOV7y94DY
Alcohol and cocaine, oops.

[SlideMeister]

Yeah! She was adorable!

[Tom]

I have two 16 hole B chromatics and love them.  D becomes Eb, E=F G=Ab A=Bb B=C.  Great for on the job with sit-in singers or guitar player.  Thanks Winslow.  G is an easy key on a C chromatic. But then, how often to you play the sharp keys?  Reading them should be easy, it’s the improv on the sharp keys that becomes more difficult.

Stryker

[SlideMeister]

I spoze a 16 would be okay but I'm more of a 12 hole guy, so I have a B 270 and yes, Thomas, its very handy.  I don't use it every day but its' worth its' weight in gold.

[Gnarly He Man]

I have a Hering in B and it never gets used.
I also put together a CX-12 in D, it's in the gold shell so it looks like it's worth its weigh in gold anyway.
But I didn't bebop it, and it sits in a box.
BTW, I misplaced my 260 travel harp and had to play the 12 hole Orchestra Bebop Sirius--what a difference!
Working out on the 260 makes playing the Sirius a breeze!

[Gene Oh]

I've had success learning one key at a time. An experienced player said they would get easier as I learned more. I found that to be true until D. I studied C, F, Bb, Eb, and then G, in that order.  Each one seemed easier to learn. All of those keys sound good to me on the chrome for the simple tunes I play. Then came D. I am struggling to get a smooth flow of notes. For you experienced players: Does D get better with practice?

I have tried to play a tune in D major. That was tough! Why? About 75% of the notes in this D-key tune was "DRAW", and at one place, 12 beats were non-stop DRAWS. That made my playing VERY clumsy! I respect senior Meisters who can play D-key tunes with no difficulty. For those who want to try this tune on their Chrom, I am attaching its music sheet herewith.