Claire de Lune puzzler...

[Paulc]

Hi, I have a copy of Claire de Lune sheet music but it is only the main portion. I crewted the tab for this and believe it is in the key if C.

I worked out one of the extra phrases by ear and when played immediately after the main portion it works well. The trouble comes when I play the second phrase and go back to the main piece, it doesn’t sound right and I realised I had written the second phrase in another key!

Is anyone able to transpose the second phrase into C?

This is what I have....


Key of C (-2o means B on lowest octave)

Verse

G G E. D E.  D. C  D C E C.  B C. B. A. B.  A. D.  A G. A. G.  F G.  F. E
3 7  6  -5 6 -5  4 -5 5 6 5 -4 5 -4 -3 -4 -3 -5 -3 3 -3  3  -2 3  -2 2

E. F. E. A. E D E. D. C D C  B
2 -2 2 -3 2 -1 2 -1  1 -1 1 -2o

G G E. D E. D. C. D G E D. E. D. C. D. A G
3  7 6  -5 6 -5 5 -5 7 6 -5 6 -5  5 -5 -7 7

E   D E   D C... A
6 -5  6 -5  5   -3

E...  D  D D  CCC B   B   B  C   A   E..  F  E  D  E  D  C  D  C  B  C   A
6... -5–5-5  555 -4 -4 -4  5  -3   6.. -6 6 -5 6 -5. 5 -5. 5 -4  5  -3

 F G   B  A  F.    F. F. F.  F G. F  F.  G C. A.   F.  F.  F.  F.  F. G.   F
-2 3 -4 -3 -2  -2-2-2-2  3 -2 -2 3  5 -3 -2 -2 -2 -2  -2 3  -2

  F G   D. C   A.      A A A. A. B.  A. C. D G. G.  G
-2 3   -5  5 -3     -3-3-3-3 -4 -3  5 -5 7   7   7........

Need this in a different key! Or play main in lower octave?

Interval

Key of B?
G A# C G A#  C  D E   D  A#
3 -3* 4 3 -3* 4 -5 6  -5 -3*

 D E  A  D E  A  A#  A  F#  G  D C
-1 2 -3 -1 2 -3 -3* -3 -2* 3 -5 5

Go back and repeat verse then finish.


Thanks in advance.

Paul

[Laina]

Hi Paul,
This doesn't address you tabs query .. just fyi  Sheet Music Direct has an £1 month intro offer with access to 000s of popular and classical sheet music. You can see and hear the whole piece, change key, slow tempo. If you want permanent access/print  there's here's a download fee but I'm currently finding it very useful checking out notes on some songs I've either no music or a partial score. Several versions of CdL are on there.
Some players like using MuseScore, a huge free resource, there's an add-on tabs facility which can be changed according to harmonica type which may help.
Laina

[kvanbael]

Key of B?
G A# C G A#  C  D E   D  A#
3 -3* 4 3 -3* 4 -5 6  -5 -3*

 D E  A  D E  A  A#  A  F#  G  D C
-1 2 -3 -1 2 -3 -3* -3 -2* 3 -5 5

Looking at your last two lines:

That first line starts off right (key is C, by the way):
G    A# C G    A# G C    A# C D C G#

You second line is in the wrong key:
F    G C F      G C C#    C A A# F(high) D#

And it continues...

A    B E A.     B E F.     E C# D A(high) G

Then it starts like the first line but takes a different route...  I’ll let some of the fun to you.

[Paulc]

Thanks for the responses. I will give them a try.

[smojoe]

Original key is Db. This may? be the problem when getting to the second part.

[Paulc]

Original key is Db. This may? be the problem when getting to the second part.

Thanks Joe.  I have to work a bit more on theory so I can understand keys better. As kvanbael pointed out the second piece is in C but has accidentals in it which made me think it was B! 😂😂

[grstatdoc]

Did someone want to see the sheet music??
(It was written in D♭)

[Grizzly]

Yes, in Db (5 flats). But at the key change, it goes into E major (4 sharps). In impressionistic music, key changes don't necessarily follow earlier rules. Why E? Two measures before the key change, the first two beats center around a Db chord; the third beat is an Fb chord. This repeats the measure before the key change. But the third chord is E. It sounds the same as an Fb chord, just spelled differently.

The Fb chord amounts to a major chord, but a minor third above Db, the key the piece is in. Fb major is a really clumsy key to write out, so Chopin put it into its sharp equivalent, E major.

I haven't looked into how he gets from E major back into Db major, but he does. Db isn't too hard on a C solo tuned harmonica, but E (4 sharps) is trickier. However, learning it from tablature may actually be easier, as long as the tab matches the melody of the original.

Tom

[smojoe]

If'n a body was to view the images in the movie in which Larry Adler played subject tune, one would notice he played a 12 hole chromo. Most likely in C. BUT if'n a body was to try the tune in C on a C chromo 12 hole, one would quickly find that there was ONE note at the very bottom of the chromo that one did NOT have access to.
As luck would have it, while most tunes are written with absolutely no regard as to how they would fit on a chromo, this just happens to be one where if'n you play it in it's key ON a C BUT play it in Db, you DO have that low note. Btw, that note is critical.
So we're back to what I (and nana Fortuna) have always said. Study the tune. And do that first. 

[Paulc]

I found I had a full version of the score and now see it has a lot more to it than the simple version I worked with originally and it does change key a few times. Must practice more 👍

Thanks for the help everybody.

[grstatdoc]

Yes, in Db (5 flats). But at the key change, it goes into E major (4 sharps). In impressionistic music, key changes don't necessarily follow earlier rules. Why E? Two measures before the key change, the first two beats center around a Db chord; the third beat is an Fb chord. This repeats the measure before the key change. But the third chord is E. It sounds the same as an Fb chord, just spelled differently.

The Fb chord amounts to a major chord, but a minor third above Db, the key the piece is in. Fb major is a really clumsy key to write out, so Chopin put it into its sharp equivalent, E major.

I haven't looked into how he gets from E major back into Db major, but he does. Db isn't too hard on a C solo tuned harmonica, but E (4 sharps) is trickier. However, learning it from tablature may actually be easier, as long as the tab matches the melody of the original.

Tom

Happy New Year, Grizzly...!
I'd say the four-sharp section leans a bit more toward C# minor than E major (Db minor is just as awkward as Fb major) ... F# minor7 (Gn minor7) to Ab9 sus4 to Ab9 (Ab-Eb in the bass; melody spells out Eb minor chord) is how I very roughly chart Debussy's transition back to Db.

[Grizzly]

Yes, in Db (5 flats). But at the key change, it goes into E major (4 sharps). In impressionistic music, key changes don't necessarily follow earlier rules. Why E? Two measures before the key change, the first two beats center around a Db chord; the third beat is an Fb chord. This repeats the measure before the key change. But the third chord is E. It sounds the same as an Fb chord, just spelled differently.

The Fb chord amounts to a major chord, but a minor third above Db, the key the piece is in. Fb major is a really clumsy key to write out, so Chopin put it into its sharp equivalent, E major.

I haven't looked into how he gets from E major back into Db major, but he does. Db isn't too hard on a C solo tuned harmonica, but E (4 sharps) is trickier. However, learning it from tablature may actually be easier, as long as the tab matches the melody of the original.

Tom

Happy New Year, Grizzly...!
I'd say the four-sharp section leans a bit more toward C# minor than E major (Db minor is just as awkward as Fb major) ... F# minor7 (Gn minor7) to Ab9 sus4 to Ab9 (Ab-Eb in the bass; melody spells out Eb minor chord) is how I very roughly chart Debussy's transition back to Db.

Hey, Mike, now you've got me curious. I'll have to revisit the score to follow your analysis. Going from Db to C# minor makes a lot of sense. Look at what Ludwig van Beethoven does in the Moonlight Sonata; C# minor in the first movement to Db in the second. Happy New Year back!

Tom

[grstatdoc]

Ya don't have to look too far if you don't have a copy already, since reply #7 has a link to the PDF....

[Grizzly]

Yeah, I know. I've downloaded it this time for future reference.

The trasition from 5 flats to 4 sharps is seamless, becaude of the parallel relationship between Db major and C# minor, and back. It's essentially all in one key. Being impressionistic, analyzing chord progressions is a little more complicated than earlier eras, but not perhaps for experienced jazz musicians.

For Mike, mostly, but others may enjoy this:



I would say that anyone listening to any recording of Claire de Lune should listen to the bass line. It's not static, and isn't always—not often, really—just the root of the chord. There is a scale-wise motion that adds to the richness of the music.

(BTW, I misattributed it to Chopin; it is, of course, Debussy.)

Tom

[grstatdoc]

That was a good video! Thanks for sharing it! 

[SlideMeister]

Sucha beautiful piece! Always liked it!  I heard someone say (years ago) he thought it was probably the most beautiful piece of music ever written. Don't know if the guy was right, but he certainly had good taste! 

@ge ><((((º>