New Seydel Nonslider Chromatic Harmonica

[BigDogDaddyD]

Does anyone have an opinion about this new harp?  Kinda reminds me of my Tombo S-50.  Cost appears to be around $260.00US.

(from their website)
NONSLIDER Chromatic DE LUXE STEEL - only holes, no slider!
Is there a chromatic harmonica with direct tone response like a Blues Harmonica, that works WITHOUT slider and WITHOUT valves, on which techniques like bending or overblow are playable?  The answer is YES. We name it the NONSLIDER CHROMATIC.
Check out all features here:  www.seydel1847.de/nonsliderdeluxesteel

At the CHROMATIC WEEKEND of the English harmonica association HarmonicaUK (June 18th-20th, 2021) SEYDEL will present this new chromatic project study in a Zoom meeting on Saturday, 06/19 at 1:15 PM (UK BST= GMT+1)!  It´s free !  You can take part here:
https://www.seydel1847.de/Made-in-Germany/News/NONSLIDER-just-holes-no-slider?fbclid=IwAR3xoObEuy-oX0DjAqnm2SytJuOW2_febh0SVhTaqeoKrpsJw5Zy2jE_-cQ

Has anyone played it?

[Paulc]

I like the idea, especially as it has no valves to worry about AND you can make it bend.

I already have a deluxe steel which has the correct note layout so asked if you can buy a replacement mouthpiece; it’ll still have valves but worth a try without have to spend too much.

[SlideMeister]

I can see where it would probably be easy to play rudimentarily, but ~I~ would not take it seriously, and for three hundred bucks yet??Nah! I hate it!
Harumph!
Age

[BigDogDaddyD]

Looking back, this really isn't a new idea.  There have been several harps designed like this through the years.  I guess this is just the newest one on the market.  As I mentioned above, reminds me of playing my Tombo S-50, only the reed plates are reversed top to bottom.  Youtube example of Tombo S-50:


 Also my Hohner Vineta No. 4 is played very similarly... tilting the harp to access the top and bottom holes.  Youtube example of tilting the Vineta No.4:


Looking to see if maybe I can modify or adjust my Vern Smith / Michael Easton 'Ergonomic Neck Rack (ENR)' to toggle the harp up & down a bit, possibly being able to play it hands free.  Given time, I'm sure someone smarter than me will figure something out.
https://customchromatics.com/ergonomic-neck-rack/

[SlideMeister]

If they really want to get this thing "out there" I think they should probably start out with a more basic, cheaper version at give it an introduction price so a buncha people would "try it."  If it flies, then come back with the "Deluxe Steel" (or whatever)

[BigDogDaddyD]

If they really want to get this thing "out there" I think they should probably start out with a more basic, cheaper version at give it an introduction price so a buncha people would "try it."  If it flies, then come back with the "Deluxe Steel" (or whatever)

I agree.  Would think that production cost and assembly time is way down compared to their other chromatics.  No slider assembly.  No valves.  Maybe an entry level, standard, and deluxe version. 

[Monacensis]

 But in Germany it costs 199€. That's 50€ less as the De Luxe Steel for 249€. So the price seems ok to me.

[Keith]

Got a Deluxe Steel, maybe just remove the valves......still have a slide, [darn]..... 

Much as I like valveless, it's not for me either, at that price.  :'(

[Edvin]

I think it looks cool!

The main USP to me seems to be that the air tightness gained from removing the slide lets you play valveless, and thus use bends and overblows. Sure, with embossing, slide modifications, reed work and aligning all the screw heads with Jupiter there are people who make normal chroms play like that, but I think they will go for more than €200. With this design it should handle at least the bends out of the box. Seems comparatively budget if you want to be able to release your inner diatonic player on a harp with all the notes.

[Grizzly]

This appears to be in the same range as a Tombo Chromatic S-50, with similar setup. Except the sharp notes are in the lower rank rather than in the upper. If I were to get the Seydel, I would swap the plates top to bottom, as it makes more sense to me comparing it to a keyboard instrument.

Another chromatic harmonica in roughly the same price range is the Suzuki Soprano Single (and its companion Suzuki Alto Solo). That is an all-blow chromatic harmonica set up exactly like a piano keyboard, with the "black-keyed" notes positioned above the naturals, whereas the others are essentially two solo diatonics in C and C# joined together.

Among the three, the S-50 may be the easiest to play. (It's the only one of the three that I own.) The hole spacing on the other two may not allow fast playing; I'd like to see videos of both to discount my doubts.

Tom

[Edvin]

This appears to be in the same range as a Tombo Chromatic S-50, with similar setup. Except the sharp notes are in the lower rank rather than in the upper. If I were to get the Seydel, I would swap the plates top to bottom, as it makes more sense to me comparing it to a keyboard instrument.

Another chromatic harmonica in roughly the same price range is the Suzuki Soprano Single (and its companion Suzuki Alto Solo). That is an all-blow chromatic harmonica set up exactly like a piano keyboard, with the "black-keyed" notes positioned above the naturals, whereas the others are essentially two solo diatonics in C and C# joined together.

Among the three, the S-50 may be the easiest to play. (It's the only one of the three that I own.) The hole spacing on the other two may not allow fast playing; I'd like to see videos of both to discount my doubts.

Tom

I think it seems rather different from the models you mention. It's has both blow and draw notes, meaning a chrom player could stick to one row and feel totally at home. The ability to bend the D's and A's down half a step (or UP if you start on a bent note on the other row!) is also a big difference.

But I agree a video would be informative! There are a few short sound clips on their page though, and I heard talk about Seydel going to give some presentation about it as part of the UK Chromatic Weekend. (tomorrow?) I'll try to catch that

[beads]

There is a video.  Just click on video on the Seydel page. It's on YouTube.
The only way I would buy one of these is if Seydel promised me the option to buy a mouthpiece and slide for $50 later so I could turn it into a standard chrome if I hated it. Otherwise too much money for an experiment.

[beads]

https://youtu.be/R4NBZazWkvg

[robertpcoble]

As my older brother is wont to say, "Where angels fear to tread - there goes a Coble!"

I just got the advertisement from Seydel in my Inbox, and immediately placed an order for one to try it out.

The MSRP (on the Seydel web site) is $249.95 + $8.53 S&H; delivery time is 2-3 weeks (presuming that it has to be manufactured on demand).

Given that I have already spent $1600.00 (with potentially more to spend to get it exactly the way I want it) on a NONSLIDER NONWINDSAVER CHROMATIC (4.5 octave range with Seydel stainless steel reeds), $258.48 door-to-door seems like quite a bargain!

I'm not "crazy" about the note layout (I don't like duplicated notes - period), but I can live with it if everybody else can play the same layout WITH a slide. I guess that makes it easier to transition from a stock chromatic note layout without a huge learning curve.

NOTE LAYOUT:

Upper Blow: C4 E4 G4 C5 C5 E5 G5 C6 C6 E6 G6 C7
Upper Draw: D4 F4 A4 B4 D5 F5 A5 B5 D6 F6 A6 B6

Lower Blow: C#4 F4 G#4 C#5 C#5 F5 G#5 C#6 C#6 F6 G#6 C#7
Lower Draw: D#4 F#4 A#4 C5 D#5 F#5 A#5 C6 D#6 F#6 A#6 D7

There are several more details on the Seydel web site.

I'll let you know how my latest manifestation of H.A.S. goes!

Crazy Bob

[Jimmy Halfnote]

 Interesting , i can't quite fathom how the angled holes of the mouthpiece work in conjunction with the comb-face... ? Thanks for bringing this new Chromatic to our attention BigDaddy.

                                                  jh.

                                                             

[Grizzly]

This appears to be in the same range as a Tombo Chromatic S-50, with similar setup. Except the sharp notes are in the lower rank rather than in the upper. If I were to get the Seydel, I would swap the plates top to bottom, as it makes more sense to me comparing it to a keyboard instrument.

Another chromatic harmonica in roughly the same price range is the Suzuki Soprano Single (and its companion Suzuki Alto Solo). That is an all-blow chromatic harmonica set up exactly like a piano keyboard, with the "black-keyed" notes positioned above the naturals, whereas the others are essentially two solo diatonics in C and C# joined together.

Among the three, the S-50 may be the easiest to play. (It's the only one of the three that I own.) The hole spacing on the other two may not allow fast playing; I'd like to see videos of both to discount my doubts.

Tom

I think it seems rather different from the models you mention. It's has both blow and draw notes, meaning a chrom player could stick to one row and feel totally at home. The ability to bend the D's and A's down half a step (or UP if you start on a bent note on the other row!) is also a big difference.

But I agree a video would be informative! There are a few short sound clips on their page though, and I heard talk about Seydel going to give some presentation about it as part of the UK Chromatic Weekend. (tomorrow?) I'll try to catch that

I only looked for a video of the Suzuki Soprano/Alto Solo, and found only one. Yes, all blow notes. But the Tombo S-50 is both blow and draw, no valves. I'm not a skilled bender, but the reeds seem to respond to my inadequate efforts. The S-50 isn't much of a harmonica. The holes are roughly the size of a diatonic's. Because the chambers only contain one reed, the instrument is longer than a CX 12, for instance, but nowhere as thick or deep. The Seydel wins on those counts. And the S-50 is cheaper.

I'm still intrigued by the Suzuki Soprano and Alto Solo harmonicas, though. I have to keep in mind, though, that slides take less physical effort.

Tom

[SlideMeister]

Yawn!  YMMV but like Sammy Davis Jr, I still gotta be me, 
Ask me again in ten yeas (if I'm still here that is )

[llumagsara]

If I were to get the Seydel, I would swap the plates top to bottom, as it makes more sense to me comparing it to a keyboard instrument.

Tom

At first i was thinking the same, but then i think that this "slide" movement direction it's more natural, also looking the demo video confirm it (to me)...   

good health

Agustín

[frankyb]

Thanks for the tipoff BigDogDaddyD.  I hate valves and love the valveless idea, so I could not resist and just ordered one.  It is the first really high quality valveless, with steel reeds, from a major chromatic harmonica manufacturer and I love Seydel Chromatics and their 2 year warranty and service. I also like having no slide.  I am a little concerned with learning to play it, as I have the Tombo S-50 and never got use to its mouthpiece.  However, this mouthpiece looks bigger and should be easy to adapt to.   Also, I found the mouthpiece on the S-50 rough and uncomfortable. Time will tell.     By the way, the price was $249.95, plus shipping.

[SlideMeister]

I think I'll wait and see how soon folks who (like myself) like "second position diatonic," and don't wanna play everything in G, end up with a box of these $250 "harps" along with box of the old $50 ones they have now. 

[beads]

It needs Bebopped. Right Gary?

[Gnarly He Man]

It needs Bebopped. Right Gary?

It needs a button!

[SlideMeister]

It needs Bebopped. Right Gary?

It needs a button!

Hear hear!

[Giuliano]

The only real advantage of this harp, in my opinion, is that you can play it hands free.....

[Carl Bakker]

I would miss the slider. It allows me to play trills and other ornaments. Also, I doubt whether I could play fast runs on a nonslider harmonica, at least I would need to practice many years. Using a slider is meanwhile wired in my brain, so I guess it would be difficult for me to switch.
If the nonslider harmonica was offered as a bass harmonica, I might be tempted to get one.

[Paulc]

I asked Seydel about buying just the mouthpiece to fit on my existing Deluxe Steel (orchestra tunedj and while it would work they won’t supply it yet.

[Edvin]

There is a video.  Just click on video on the Seydel page. It's on YouTube.
The only way I would buy one of these is if Seydel promised me the option to buy a mouthpiece and slide for $50 later so I could turn it into a standard chrome if I hated it. Otherwise too much money for an experiment.

Thanks!

I note that the Technical Data states:

"solo tuning in C: the 12x2 channels ..."

I believe this means that the Nonslider has 2 reeds per channel, as with a valved chromatic, which allows the playing of the bends and overblows (if you develop those skills) of a diatonic, as the Nonslider is valveless. It appears to rely on the elimination of the slider to create the desired airtightness.  Chromatics like the Easttop valveless Forerunner use 1 compartment for each reed and thus do not have all the diatonic bends and overblows avialble to them. Is my understanding correct?

That's exactly my understanding as well. This should play like two solo tuned diatonics in C and Db, mounted super close to eachother. Close enough to play phrases that alternate between the two. The solo tuning means only every other hole will have a halfstep bend though... Some tuning would probably better unlock the potential in this idea.

[streetlegal]

I do like the look of this harmonica. I like the big curved mouthpiece - better than the kind of mouthpiece I have seen on the Tombos. I wonder if Seydel have their configurator available for the reedplates for this model - to meet the needs of alternate tuners and flat-sliders .

[Laina]

If you can make it Seydel's presenting it today with Q&A at the Chromatic celebration weekend at 1.15pm BST.

All the weekend's events are free to join - also so far everything's streaming live on YT if you miss a Zoom session.
http://harmonica.uk/HUKBlog/chromatic-weekend/
Meeting ID: 947 4539 6025; Passcode: 684590

[Keith]

Interesting , i can't quite fathom how the angled holes of the mouthpiece work in conjunction with the comb-face... ?

It's just like if you took the mouthpiece & slide off a chromatic, the face of the comb is playable, they have just created a mouthpiece that does the same more comfortably.