New Seydel Nonslider Chromatic Harmonica

[Keith]

The Seydel doesn't have valves, so I don't think it can have the same nuances that a valved chrom could have, but it's certainly close enough for me & what I play.

(If you were talking about how it is played, then once you are used to it, it will be just as easy to play as a regular chrom.)

[zvigrunb]

The Seydel doesn't have valves, so I don't think it can have the same nuances that a valved chrom could have, but it's certainly close enough for me & what I play.

(If you were talking about how it is played, then once you are used to it, it will be just as easy to play as a regular chrom.)

Yes, I reffering to playing techniques.
For example, slide aided grace notes - With the non-slider you'll always need to physically move holes.
I imagine clumsyness.

[Keith]

I do think that once you get used to it, it will be just as easy to switch hole & back, as it is to push the slide & release it - time will tell.

[Gene Oh]

I received my Orchestra tuned Nonslider (a gift from my wife) today.  All I can say is WOW!  G3, A3 and B3, the new lower notes, all play more easily and with excellent volume, than on any harmonica I have.  This really has surprised me, as I thought that with a valveless harmonica this would be very difficult for Seydel to accomplish.


I immediately played Danny Boy starting on B3 instead of B4 and had no problems.  This is now my 'dream' harmonica, unless they offer a 14 hole configureable (starting at C3) version. 


On my standard tuned Nonslider I have had a bit of trouble getting good sound from C4 and I have adjusted the gap, but although it is now OK, the two C4s on my new Orchestra tuned version are perfect.

Congrats on your purchase of the adorable toy! I wonder if your G3, G3#, A3, A3#, B3 and B3# are half-valved or not. I have one email correspondence with Seydel Sohne as follows:

QUOTE
Hello Gene,
The NONLSIDER Chromatic harmonica is without valves, that's correct. It's also no problem to make an Orchestra tuned version of the NONSLIDER harmonica.
But in our tests we found out it's better to half valve the Orchestra tuning. This means all bendings are still possible, but there are valves inside.
We can also do it completely without valves, but it will be more airy than the version with valves.
UNQUOTE

Cheers,
Gene

[frankyb]

I received my Orchestra tuned Nonslider (a gift from my wife) today.  All I can say is WOW!  G3, A3 and B3, the new lower notes, all play more easily and with excellent volume, than on any harmonica I have.  This really has surprised me, as I thought that with a valveless harmonica this would be very difficult for Seydel to accomplish.


I immediately played Danny Boy starting on B3 instead of B4 and had no problems.  This is now my 'dream' harmonica, unless they offer a 14 hole configureable (starting at C3) version. 


On my standard tuned Nonslider I have had a bit of trouble getting good sound from C4 and I have adjusted the gap, but although it is now OK, the two C4s on my new Orchestra tuned version are perfect.

You are right! At least I see a valve on the upper side of the plate on both plates.  I had not looked inside and assumed it was totally valveless.  Stupid, as I once said that I would buy an Orchestra tuned 'valveless' chromatic, even if they had to use valves on the low notes.    I am correcting my post.  Thanks.  I am happy to 'put up' with a half valving if that is what is necessary to get the lower notes. Still though, they seem to play more easily for me than my 16 hole and 14 hole chromatics.   

[OhioMusicalSawMan]

Very interesting, but I think I'll stick with my regular valved Chromatic for now

[Edvin]

Also: Can you play two holes in different rows? With standard tuning, this would let you play a draw C together with a draw A to suggest an A minor chord, or together with an F and possibly an A to get an F major chord. With alternate tunings, the possibilities would be endless

Yup, it takes a bit of practice but it does work. And it does give a lot of new possibilities indeed. Actually, it's exactly what I'm doing in this video, with (for lack of a better word) what I call 'diagonal chords':

A question on diagonal chords:
Can you play diagonal chords with the Nonslider in a rack?

I'd be interested in hearing about this from anyone who plays one! I'm making final adjustments to the layout of a custom tuned Nonslider, and it would be useful to know what to expect.

[brorat]

Very well done, Edvin!!  Thanks for posting that.  I'm always amazed at the creativity, talent, and adventurous spirit of the members of our forum.

[SlideMeister]

Yeah! Very nicely done!

[wolfman]

  Very nice Edvin.That's what i like about this
 instrument all the different sound that are possiple.

 Roman

[Edvin]

I enjoy the praise as much the next guy, but in this case I'm afraid I can't claim credit.

There seems to have been a misunderstanding: My post was a question asked in response to a video posted just a little further up in this thread by Hein, showing off his brilliant playing. 

[frankyb]

Celebrating my 2 month anniversary of getting my custom orchestra tuned Nonslider.  I absolutely love it!  The extended range on the low end is great.  I have had my first Nonslider (regular tuning) since July, 2020.


These chromatics are so easy to live with with; no valve issues or slide issues.  The orchestra tuned does have a couple of valves on the lowest notes, but so far, no issues there.  I often just pick up the harmonica and start playing, so I really appreciate that I can play it from cold.


I have had difficulty learning to play melodies, that I already know, with sharps, but I am finally there.  I had great difficulty when starting to play a harmonica, with learning to play single notes and I still can not play with pucker.  I think most people will not have the difficulty I had when using a Nonslider.  Also, I have not yet worked on learning a new melody, that has sharps, with a nonslider and believe that when I do it will be much easier than learning to play a melody that I already know, with respect to playing the sharps.


By the way, my orchestra tuned Nonslider's temperament is "compromised" and my other is "equal temperament."  I don't think I can tell the difference.

[Bernie9]

I agree that the non-slider is everything you say.  I have the original, and had to spend some time learning to flip to the other row like I would push in the slide.  It is coming along, like you, fortunately.  It is great for one handed playing, as I dislike horse collars, however, it doesn't do a fast chromatic arpeggio(for me) nearly as easy as my trusty slide.  I just choose the right chrom for the song and don't try putting a square peg in a round hole, so to speak.

[Keith]

By the way, my orchestra tuned Nonslider's temperament is "compromised" and my other is "equal temperament."  I don't think I can tell the difference.

I believe the only difference is in the sound of chords, one makes them sound better, the other makes single notes sound better.

[streetlegal]

By the way, my orchestra tuned Nonslider's temperament is "compromised" and my other is "equal temperament."  I don't think I can tell the difference.

I believe the only difference is in the sound of chords, one makes them sound better, the other makes single notes sound better.

Chords really are just a grouping of single notes. So if we sound a chord as an arpeggio - each note of the chord sounded in turn - then if the notes sound good (harmonious) in the chord, they also sound good as single notes within the scale.

[Hein]

Also: Can you play two holes in different rows? With standard tuning, this would let you play a draw C together with a draw A to suggest an A minor chord, or together with an F and possibly an A to get an F major chord. With alternate tunings, the possibilities would be endless

Yup, it takes a bit of practice but it does work. And it does give a lot of new possibilities indeed. Actually, it's exactly what I'm doing in this video, with (for lack of a better word) what I call 'diagonal chords':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2JfDBj6u3k

A question on diagonal chords:
Can you play diagonal chords with the Nonslider in a rack?

I'd be interested in hearing about this from anyone who plays one! I'm making final adjustments to the layout of a custom tuned Nonslider, and it would be useful to know what to expect.

Great question, Edvin, about playing diagonal chords on a Nonslider in a rack.

At first, I thought it would be difficult, since I've gotten used to tilting the Nonslider about 45 degrees when playing diagonal chords from hand.

Yet thanks to your question, I've been experimenting with these diagonal chords on a rack, and they do seem (kinda) possible when using a combination of tilting your head AND moving your under jaw sideways. Still very(!) hit and miss as for me, but that 'more missing than hitting' also applied to my first attempts at playing diagonal chords from hand, so maybe, with some practice, playing them from a rack may also become a usable option? Especially if you're motivated the way you seem to be, Edvin.

As the wise Pippi Longstocking once said: "I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that." 

[frankyb]

The NONSLIDER is now available in a number of keys and in orchestra tuning without special ordering from the Custom Shop.


https://www.seydel1847.de/nonsliderdeluxesteel

[SlideMeister]

$250 to $333?

Nah! That ain't never gunna work for me. 
(but I'll bet y'all knew that already  )

[Corinto]

Which one to start with: Orchestra C or LC?
239.95 € here.

[Keith]

If you play regular tunes, the orchestra tuned, but if you prefer the lower notes, the LC, (tenor).

Personally I'd suggest the orchestra tuned as a first or only.

[Gnarly He Man]

Ed Coogan plays the Power Chromatic slide harmonica tuning, although he starts with an A so he thinks of it as Dorian—so blow is Am7, draw is Bm7.
He recently tried the Nonslider, here’s what he shared with me.

Despite my overly frugal nature, I bit the bullet and bought an “A Dorian” slideless 1/2 valved through Greg Jones. I played it an hour a day for 3 weeks. My take:
The fact that the higher reed plate is on the lower row of holes is counterintuitive. I just couldn’t wrap my head around it. I really liked the air tightness , but I found it difficult to maintain a tight seal when moving from row to row. I just couldn’t play clean and fast enough to satisfy my personal expectations as a musician. So, Greg is going to put a slide and mouthpiece on this thing for a small fee.
Greg told me he has sold 30 of these and has had favorable reviews with only 2-3 returns, which surprises me a bit, but who knows. In summation, for me this was a failed $350 experiment .
Granted, I will end up with a decent spare…so it goes. I just thought you may glean something from my experience
Greg Jones is very generous with his return policy and willing to work with customers-I don’t want to malign Greg or Seydel - it’s just a product that didn’t work for me.

[Danny G]

Gary, I think people successfully catching on to it are mostly diatonic players who want to play chromatically without the button..
Sort of like guitar players who are noodling with the Pentaharp.

[HUGO]

From previous, positive experiences with Seydel Sampler harmonicas (the same available notes as a 12 hole Chromatic, without the slide engaged), I've long contemplated buying one of their chromatics, which seem so popular here on SM and elsewhere. 

 I'd also been interested in the idea of the lower maintenance, valve-less chrom which I learned about here. It's bendability and lack of valve problems were stand out features.

 As someone who's mechanically declined regarding harmonicas, the Nonslider seemed to be a good choice for me. To verify that, I played some Classical pieces in my repertoire at slow  to medium tempo with a CX12-C. When it was necessary to engage the Slide Button, I'd simultaneously rotate the harmonica in the manner of the Nonslider. When I felt that I could do this competently enough I contacted my local supplier and ordered a Nonslider in solo tuned - C. 

 Something that will only be known after playing it is; how will the mouthpiece (MP) interact with my lips. The fact that there's additional MP to lip friction created by rotating the Nonslider (where once only Slide Button engagement was necessary) is a deal maker / breaker to me:

* Hoping for the best: it'll glide across my lips like my impossibly slick Meisterklasse
* Preparing for the worst: it'll require constant lubrication

- HUGO

[wolfman]

 Talk about noodling Danny.My wife got me a Pentaharp
  for fathers day.Lot of noodling going on here.

  Roman

[Gnarly He Man]

Talk about noodling Danny.My wife got me a Pentaharp
  for fathers day.Lot of noodling going on here.

  Roman

Late to the party on this post—are you still noodling on the PentaHarp?

[wolfman]

I stopped noodling Gary,could not find the notes i
was looking for on that layout.

 Roman

[Gnarly He Man]

I have a retune for you, send it to me, I do it for free!
“ED tuning.”

https://easyharmonica.com/about?fbclid=IwAR0d1lAdKy4c1CeqzFbuZl-4KeUfpQb_QRxCMojt77gegwFX2DjH2cwAK4Y

Trust me, it’s an improvement.

[Rechmbrs]

I have a retune for you, send it to me, I do it for free!
“ED tuning.”

https://easyharmonica.com/about?fbclid=IwAR0d1lAdKy4c1CeqzFbfuZl-4KeUfpQb_QRxCMojt77gegwFX2DjH2cwAK4Y

Trust me, it’s an improvement.

Excellent way to simplify the layout of a diatonic.

RONC

[Rechmbrs]

Here is a thread also about the NON slider:  https://forums.SlideMeister.com/index.php?topic=21289.0

[wolfman]

Thank you Gary.Give me a few days.

 Roman