Author Topic: Augmented/Diminished tuning fan club?!  (Read 84909 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Don Lorenzo

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2009, 07:42:33 PM »
Hey, Guys!   

Let's not let this Fan Club go dormant!

 ;) :D ;D :o ::) :P :-*

Don Lornzo

Offline Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,193
  • Chroma means color
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2009, 04:39:54 AM »
Uh, OK . . .
I have finished the rough tuning on the 270 deluxe and will start fine tuning it next week.
I am glad my bro Chromaddict is finding it rewarding.
I could learn it but am happy with the tunings I am currently using.
That is all for now . . .
G

chromaddict

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2009, 08:26:15 PM »
Don't worry - I am plenty excited - just don't want to rush the tuningmeister

roady43

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2009, 05:46:50 PM »
WORLD PREMIERE
COVER SCREWS GOOD-BYE!!!
"Next Generation 260" with Wood Covers: Palisander fixed without screws!
This will be one of my next [Half Tone Slide] AUGMENTED HARMONICAS, starting from G3 going up to Bb5 (3 octaves plus a third!).


Reeds not yet exchanged, no windsavers so far...
Reedplates fixed with 8 screws, mouthpiece metal thread fixed.
Color of the varnish of the comb is unpleasant to the covers; to be changed possibly to black piano varnish. 


Roady

Offline Grizzly

  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,314
  • aka Tom
    • Transcriptions
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2009, 05:59:27 PM »
Roady, those covers are beautiful. If you're intent on varnishing the comb, do so; but I like the contrast between the two woods. They look fine together in the pictures. IMO, of course.

I've wondered for awhile what a more standard Super 64-like set of covers would do for my CBH 2016. Any thoughts?

Tom
working on my second 10,000!

Offline Ken Backwell (Sr)

  • harmoniken
  • Chrome-Tributor
  • **
  • Posts: 218
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2009, 07:45:38 PM »
Tom:
I have a 2016, and like you I wondered too. I asked Bill Romel to make me a set of wooden, single chamber covers for the 2016. It did not make enough difference to make me like the harmonica any better. I still have it, nearly new, I have played perhaps a dozen songs using it.
Cheers
Ken

Offline Grizzly

  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,314
  • aka Tom
    • Transcriptions
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2009, 07:53:51 PM »
Ken, I'd still like to try it. To go all out, I'd have a new mouthplate made with a fatter, more rounded profile. I guess all it takes is money, and someone willing to do the work.

Of course, then it wouldn't be a CBH. Unfortunately, I don't think any of its components are interchangeable with other harmonicas. I'd try the reedplates in my Super 64, if I could.

Tom
working on my second 10,000!

chromaddict

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2009, 08:40:37 AM »
very nice roady!  Why don't you build a new mouthpiece while you are at it!

Don Lorenzo

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2009, 10:18:10 AM »
Yes, Roady-

The wooden cover plates are BEAUTIFUL.   And I echo what Chormaddict said: Redesign the mouthpiece. 

I actually like the square holes on my 260, but it is sooooo rough.  If it could be as smooth as the Super 64 (is that silver plated?), it would be great!

In AUGMENTED TUNING of course.  ;)

Don Lorenzo

Offline Grizzly

  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,314
  • aka Tom
    • Transcriptions
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2009, 10:20:53 AM »
The mouthplate of the Super 64 is silver plated.

Tom
working on my second 10,000!

Offline Eugene Ryan

  • Chrome-Minator
  • ***
  • Posts: 684
    • Eugene Ryan, harmonica
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2009, 12:05:12 PM »
Roady, that looks sweet!

roady43

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2009, 08:28:24 PM »
very nice roady!  Why don't you build a new mouthpiece while you are at it!

Yes, Roady-

The wooden cover plates are BEAUTIFUL.   And I echo what Chormaddict said: Redesign the mouthpiece. 

I actually like the square holes on my 260, but it is sooooo rough.  If it could be as smooth as the Super 64 (is that silver plated?), it would be great!

In AUGMENTED TUNING of course.  ;)

Don Lorenzo

Thanks

Indeed, there (still!) is an old shaped mouthpiece on this 260 (doesn't matter as long the instrument is not "AUGMENTED" yet :(). But the new ones are much smoother and I like them very much.
As I'm mostly equipped for wood working, I do not touch metal much (except for tuning of coarse!)...

Pictures
Comparison of Hohner mouthpieces from earlier/old (sharp and rough) and from todays production (improved and much smoother):
1.) 260
2.) 270
3.) 280
4.) Meisterklasse (the new Meisterklasse mouthpiece is the best and most comfortable I know)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 08:32:44 PM by roady43 »

chromaddict

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2009, 01:33:26 AM »
I agree that the meisterklasse mouthpiece is the best.  I guess I'll have to wait and see what the newer 260 mouthpiece feels like.

Btw, was practicing the 260 augmented on the way home from my gig tonight.  I put in a new play-along that I picked up before the gig, and I really didn't know a lot of the tunes or even what key they were in - I have to say that the augmented tuning is so liberating!  You just find a note and play, with no worries about where you are on the harmonica. 

I have been playing piano for almost 30 years, and I know plenty about theory and harmony.  To be able to let go of all that and just play instinctively is so wonderful.  If there are only 5 of us in the world, then so be it.  Obviously, it's a huge chore to retune, replace reeds, custom order or whatever.  Maybe we should start our own harmonica company.

And to the rest of you, who are so set in your ways, you don't know what you're missing! 

Offline Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,193
  • Chroma means color
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2009, 03:09:33 AM »
Obviously, it's a huge chore to retune, replace reeds, custom order or whatever. 
Word, brother man :P
G

Offline Grizzly

  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,314
  • aka Tom
    • Transcriptions
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2009, 07:59:38 AM »
8<
And to the rest of you, who are so set in your ways, you don't know what you're missing! 
How does it affect our sight-reading?

Tom
working on my second 10,000!

Don Lorenzo

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2009, 10:00:33 AM »
Btw, was practicing the 260 augmented on the way home from my gig tonight.  I put in a new play-along that I picked up before the gig, and I really didn't know a lot of the tunes or even what key they were in - I have to say that the augmented tuning is so liberating!  You just find a note and play, with no worries about where you are on the harmonica. 

I have been playing piano for almost 30 years, and I know plenty about theory and harmony.  To be able to let go of all that and just play instinctively is so wonderful.  If there are only 5 of us in the world, then so be it.  Obviously, it's a huge chore to retune, replace reeds, custom order or whatever.  Maybe we should start our own harmonica company.

And to the rest of you, who are so set in your ways, you don't know what you're missing! 

AMEN!  But, there are already 5 of us.   If we get just ONE MORE, we R growing phenomally, and well on our way to becoming a MOVEMENT!

Don Lorenzo

chromaddict

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2009, 10:52:41 AM »
Tom,

The tuning will seem strange at first, but you will appreciate the logical layout almost immediately.  I haven't been using it to read music that much so far, mainly because I'm still so enamored with the ear playing aspect.  Other fans have said that it works very well for reading, and I have no doubt that it is true.

The one thing that you won't have to worry about is switching back to standard tuning.  You simply are not going to forget what you know so well.

Also, if you have a C based instrument (slide out blow C), then the first six notes are the same as standard tuning.  First hole, C,Db,D,Eb - second hole E, (slide in blow) F.  The next hole is a half step up from what you are used to playing.  So playing a C major scale feels kind of like playing the first half in C and the second half in Db (G, A,& B are all button notes).  For me the note that feels the strangest is the (slide in draw) G (hole 2).
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 11:04:23 AM by chromaddict »

chromaddict

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2009, 10:55:25 AM »
Don,

Sorry, I know I'm speaking only of my specific version of the tuning, but one does have to choose - I still feel we are very much in the same club!

Offline Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,193
  • Chroma means color
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2009, 11:13:47 AM »
The thing to remember about playing aug tuned harmonica is that major scales are mostly made up of whole step intervals.
Only two half step intervals in an octave.
I'm still not practicing on the instrument--but I am putting finishing touches on the 270 for Grant--going out this week!
G

chromaddict

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2009, 11:22:20 AM »
Yes - I have changed my mind.  Please hurry!

Offline Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,193
  • Chroma means color
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2009, 11:24:14 AM »
 :P ::) ??? :D ;D

chromaddict

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #51 on: April 22, 2009, 11:25:38 AM »
The thing to remember about playing aug tuned harmonica is that major scales are mostly made up of whole step intervals.
Only two half step intervals in an octave.
I'm still not practicing on the instrument--but I am putting finishing touches on the 270 for Grant--going out this week!
G

Very true - On that note Lorenzo's tuning may be more appealing for major scale type playing, whereas augmented may favor chromaddict playing.

chromaddict

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2009, 11:27:25 AM »
:P ::) ??? :D ;D

How can I ever catch up if you are making posts like that?  Ok, I admit I'm trying to get to 100 myself.  :P

Offline Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,193
  • Chroma means color
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2009, 11:51:07 AM »
Yes, and we are all trying to catch Grizzly.
Or Zoldie . . .
Although, i just checked the stats, I do seem to have made a lot of posts to this forum.
And yet, I have learned so much!
Gary

Offline Eugene Ryan

  • Chrome-Minator
  • ***
  • Posts: 684
    • Eugene Ryan, harmonica
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2009, 12:24:16 PM »
Thanks for the mouthpiece comparison pics, Roady.  That's very instructive... I'd be interested in picking up a Meisterclasse now...

Quote
How does it affect our sight-reading?
Based on my experience of diminished tuning, you have to learn where each note is on the new tuning (no surprise there) - you still have to be able to pick out every note at will on the instrument you're familiar with.  I know I have other tunings that are displaced by some holes from my main tuning, and I'm not as familiar with them. Then again, I didn't spend the time on them yet!  Ah come on, can't I have something for free?  :)

I don't know if the tuning really affects sight reading although the fact that these tunings are symmetrical may help.  For example, if you see an A major 7th arpeggio then you also know and can play the pattern in C# (I guess for augmented tunings). So, insofar as some of sight recognition is about recognising melodic patterns, it can help with that.

I agree with the guys when they say that these tunings are very good for ear playing.  I seem to remember the circular tuning players saying the same thing.

Quote
Obviously, it's a huge chore to retune, replace reeds, custom order or whatever. 
A point not to be dismissed! You have to wait for someone to retune, or get good at it yourself over time.

Here are some points in solo-tuning's favour:
  • Being able to buy solo-tuning chromatic harmonicas in the shop makes it an attractive option. 
  • Most of the chromatic harmonica playing on record is on solo tuning.
  • If you want to play any of the classical music pieces for harmonica, they're all written for solo tuning.
  • It's great for playing in keys close to or modes around the parent scale the harmonica is tuned to.

Again, IMO, for music where having an instrument biased on C major (or other major key) is no advantage, these tunings really come into their own. What I mean by that is that if you're playing a lot in keys other than C, you might as well have some of the advantages of the symmetrical tunings (regularity, easy transposition, limited number of patterns to get all keys, ear playing is probably easier due to regularity of the tunings as listed above...)

Eugene

chromaddict

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2009, 02:19:45 PM »
Good points Eugene.  I believe the augmented tuning might have a slight advantage in ear playing to diminished tuning.  Diminshed tuning has an advantage due to breath change possibilities, plus there being 3 patterns rather than 4. 

Of course augmented tuning has the advantage of a larger range, and smaller jumps to reach larger intervals.  On that note, I have a meisterklasse that is looking less and less appealing to me the more I play augmented.  It was customized by Antony Dannecker and is in excellent condition.  It is extremely airtight as I have never had to open it up.  So if you are interested I may be willing to sell it at some point.  It's a tough call because it's an extremely high quality instrument and I paid a lot for it (it seems the prices on the meisterklasse have come down a bit). 

Also, I am waiting to receive a Super 64x that needed a new spring and some minor repairs.  I will probably sell one and keep the other.  Let me know if you have any interest in either.

Offline Eugene Ryan

  • Chrome-Minator
  • ***
  • Posts: 684
    • Eugene Ryan, harmonica
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2009, 02:36:54 PM »
Nice one! Does the MK have the newer mouthpiece?  I guess we should take this offlist  :)  I already have a Super 64, thanks - I like the mouthpiece.

We should definitely keep comparing notes regarding diminished vs. augmented. What type(s) of music do you play?

Quote
I have been playing piano for almost 30 years, and I know plenty about theory and harmony.

Interesting that you find the symmetrical tuning liberating like that after piano.  I came at this from the other way around - harp for a long time and piano for much shorter.

Eugene

chromaddict

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2009, 02:47:36 PM »
I'm mainly a jazz player, although I'm also a church music director.  I'll send you my info in case you want to talk about the meisterklasse.  And yes it does have the newer mouthpiece. 

I should be getting the super 64x back in a few days which will help me decide which one I want to sell. 

Offline Eugene Ryan

  • Chrome-Minator
  • ***
  • Posts: 684
    • Eugene Ryan, harmonica
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2009, 02:52:45 PM »
Good stuff.  I play mostly jazz these days, but also blues and Irish trad (and any variations and mixtures I can make up!)

I agree with the 4 enharmonics per octave making things easier on diminished - it helps with smoother runs, as well as sometimes if you have to decorate a note diatonically. 

Eugene

chromaddict

  • Guest
Re: Augmented tuning fan club?!
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2009, 04:12:20 PM »
Eugene,

I've been checking out your myspace.  Good stuff - is it on diminished tuning and what harps are you using?  What about Mercy, Mercy, Mercy?  Some Day does sound like it's a bit distorted though.

I have been hanging on to the notion that with only 4 enharmonics, I would rather just stay with augmented tuning.  But it does sound interesting, useful, and apparently easier to convert.  I'd have to make my own personal fan club for people who play both augmented and diminished.  I don't want to be placed in a madhouse either.

If I end up keeping the meisterklasse, I could be tempted...