16 hole B flat harmonica

[streetlegal]

Is it possible to get 16 hole chromatic harmonicas in keys other than C? I know that harmonicas can be customised but that would be out of my price range. I'd like one in B flat.

[Grizzly]

Nope. You'd have to get a C 16 retuned.

Tom

[thebaron]

There are a few 12 hole ones available. It is my favourite key. Not too high and not to low for reed response. I dislike to 2 top holes of normal C harmonicas, and the bottom 2 on the baritone C are often difficult to play well. The Bb is just perfect, either that or A which is just as good.

[SlideMeister]

Most tuner guys I've talked to say you can go down two clicks with no problems and Bflat is two clicks down from the stock tuning. I've seen guys with Bflat 16 holers, and one tuned down to B.

@ge

[Ingo]

Most tuner guys I've talked to say you can go down two clicks with no problems and Bflat is two clicks down from the stock tuning. I've seen guys with Bflat 16 holers, and one tuned down to B.

@ge

Easiest way is running that C 16 over with the backwheel of your car...Instant B flat

Ok...my brain is addled from too much hospital food....

[wolfman]

     
       To Bb or not Bb that is the question.......

[streetlegal]

I suppose I'm going to have to settle for a 12 hole - but I know I'm going to miss those low notes.

[Eugene Ryan]

Why not use Harponline? As far as I know, it's the only place where you can pick what notes you want in what harp, and have new reeds instead of weighted or ground down reeds.  It's as simple as:

1. Go to
http://harponline.de/des/harponline_tuning_designer.php?&locale=en_GB&

2. Pick Hohner 64 or your favourite

3. Start filling in the notes.  Your "tenor" Bb would start on Bb2 (middle C = C4, so C in the first hole of a 64 = C3, and you want the Bb below that = Bb2)

Then harponline will send you the price. I've found the price very good - I have a 64 that goes down to G2 (mmmm, lovely!)

All the best,
Eugene

[Jimmy Halfnote]

Eugene , i covet that G2 , 64 you have , how much valve interference is there on the bottom two holes ?due to the big arc of the reeds ( from G2 to C3), and how 'real' control do you have on these reeds , volume for instance, or do you use them mainly for chords, or a base line in a group.
                                                                                                                            jh.

[Eugene Ryan]

Hey Jimmy,

I don't have the harp very long, so I can't give a detailed report on it.  It's tuned to G2 diminished, I finished some reeds as they are outside the recommended tolerances.

Surprisingly, there isn't significant interference from valves or cover plates - or in the other direction, the bottom of the reed chamber.  The action is quite good.  The gapping was a little tight on one of the reeds I tuned myself, but that was a small issue.

True enough, I do tend to use it for basslines, but I just like the sound too.  You don't have as much control as a 12 C chrom, of course, but it's still nice.  I'll do you up a sample soon.

Eugene

[Eugene Ryan]

Jimmy, a couple of samples of the Super 64 starting on G2, just me playing some low lines at home.

[Jason Rogers]

Wow, that's some monster range you've got there!  Sounds great!

[Jimmy Halfnote]

Many thanks Eugene , sorry to say i can't get into your file, all i get is a full script of letters, characters etc., excuse this computer dumbo, we are with Linux, i'll get the smarter 'other half ' to have a go sometime soon, thanks again.

                                                                                                                                            jh.

[Tom]

I had 4 factory made Bb 64s from Hering.  Only one left now.   Also, I have what appears to be the only Hohner Bb 64s ever made by the factory.  It is an old style 280 with a wood block.  Never used it because to me, it is a collector's piece.  However, I have played the Hering a bit but I still prefer playing Bb on a C 64 as it lies quite well.  

Stryker

[Danny G]

The only 16 hole harmonica that I know of that comes in keys other than C is the Bends Tonica 64. Available in A - Bb and C

[wjharmonica]

Almost 2020, it's been 9 year since this thread started, wonder if folks in the harmonica world know ifany theres any Bb 14/16 hole producers? And ofc with decent enough price

[BeauKim]

I know that Psardo makes one or maybe it was custom made for that guy Kettlewell...  Otherwise, I think it would have to be custom tuned by a customizer.  I have tuned reeds down with no problem, but I haven't ventured out for retuning all 64 reeds, yet.  That'll take some time!

[wjharmonica]

I know that Psardo makes one or maybe it was custom made for that guy Kettlewell...  Otherwise, I think it would have to be custom tuned by a customizer.  I have tuned reeds down with no problem, but I haven't ventured out for retuning all 64 reeds, yet.  That'll take some time!

Yeah saw that video too so think it's very interesting but Psardo is costly :/ I wonder how they do it, tuning down reed by reed? or they replace all the reeds on the reedplate (but i think the reedslot is fixed so can't really swap reeds between slots)?

[Danny G]

Psardo harmonicas are not mass produced, they are built to order. So if you want one just say so when you place your order.

[anthomp]

Antony Dannecker many years ago made a C super 64 to Bb
by adding solder to the reeds, a method  I know also used by john cook
to make one for a customer who attended one of his all day chromatic workshops
alongside me.
anthomp

[Scotty]

Antony Dannecker many years ago made a C super 64 to Bb
by adding solder to the reeds, a method  I know also used by john cook
to make one for a customer who attended one of his all day chromatic workshops
alongside me.
anthomp

Exactly. I know that's how most of those who convert C's to Bb's do it, thank you. John is a Highly rated English customizer/player/teacher...but other
technicians I know here in the States do it the same way. I was going to have two of my own Super 64's converted to keys of A and Bb by one of our
best customizers (now retired from doing this kind of work), so someone else is taking over the process. Neither of us is in a rush.

Fwiw, Robert Bonfiglio talked about tuning one of his own 16-hole chromatics to a B down from a C to record a specific tune, by using solder. It took
him a long time but he did it by himself.

Brendan Power made some 16-hole Bb's and A's when he 'frankensteined' cx-12's by cutting them apart, soldering and gluing two instruments together   to come up with his fantastic creations.

Bends Tonica actually produced 16-hole A's and Bb's for a while --I only found out about them when they were being discontinued, much to my chagrin, since I've long-since wanted both. Unsure if I had the funds at the time anyway.

Separately, we do know via word-of-mouth that Hohner produced 16-hole Bb (and possibly A's) for some of the top players 'back in the day'. They weren't discussed because we were all supposed to believe that the ultimate achievement was to play every key on a single instrument and if one of our heroes
was actually using a different-keyed instrument to play specific songs (or more difficult tunes) the world would come to an end (or some such)? 

scotty

[wjharmonica]

Antony Dannecker many years ago made a C super 64 to Bb
by adding solder to the reeds, a method  I know also used by john cook
to make one for a customer who attended one of his all day chromatic workshops
alongside me.
anthomp

Exactly. I know that's how most of those who convert C's to Bb's do it, thank you. John is a Highly rated English customizer/player/teacher...but other
technicians I know here in the States do it the same way. I was going to have two of my own Super 64's converted to keys of A and Bb by one of our
best customizers (now retired from doing this kind of work), so someone else is taking over the process. Neither of us is in a rush.

Fwiw, Robert Bonfiglio talked about tuning one of his own 16-hole chromatics to a B down from a C to record a specific tune, by using solder. It took
him a long time but he did it by himself.

Brendan Power made some 16-hole Bb's and A's when he 'frankensteined' cx-12's by cutting them apart, soldering and gluing two instruments together   to come up with his fantastic creations.

Bends Tonica actually produced 16-hole A's and Bb's for a while --I only found out about them when they were being discontinued, much to my chagrin, since I've long-since wanted both. Unsure if I had the funds at the time anyway.

Separately, we do know via word-of-mouth that Hohner produced 16-hole Bb (and possibly A's) for some of the top players 'back in the day'. They weren't discussed because we were all supposed to believe that the ultimate achievement was to play every key on a single instrument and if one of our heroes
was actually using a different-keyed instrument to play specific songs (or more difficult tunes) the world would come to an end (or some such)? 

scotty

That is very informative, thank you for this Scotty! And yeah 16 C key is suffice for most songs just that I like to play along trumpet and sax Bb tunes/sheet music as they are easily available on YouTube compare to sheet music in C  I guess it's time to get a solder and a cheap harmonica for practice !

[Scotty]

fwiw, wjh - I'm a huge proponent of playing whatever instrument 'speaks' to you --regardless of the key. It simply doesn't matter about getting it all
on a single chromatic to my mind--especially in this day of so many of us having so many different chromatics, so why not have a couple in other keys
as well, if that appeals to you?

 I also love to play along to sax music...most of the Hal Leonard play-alongs I buy are for either alto sax, flute or piano/guitar (those I play over)….but my favourite thing to do is to play along with saxophonists. It's so much more fun with either a Bb or Eb instrument (I have a CX-12 in EB as well as Bb), and my basic go-to instrument is an A chromatic, although I easily go back to a C to 'play well with others'.

My real dream would be to have cx-16's made in not only C but in A and Bb. A pipedream seemingly at this point. So the next best thing is to have Super 64's converted over.  Use what works for you and suits your music/ear, but if it proves too difficult to do the work--there might be a couple of people here who'd be willing to do the tuning for you.

scotty

[BigDogDaddyD]

Just picked up an old Hugo Rauner 16 hole in the key of G.  Only 16 hole I own that's not in C.  Thinking about tuning it up to A or Bb maybe.  Anybody have an idea if the older 16 holers came in different keys?  I have several old Hohner 280's.  Maybe better to leave the G alone and solder an old C harp down to Bb or A.

[BeauKim]

Wow.  Is that tuned to the G lower of higher than the normal C3 (one octave below middle C on the piano)?  How does it play?

[Keith]

Maybe better to leave the G alone and solder an old C harp down to Bb or A.

Personally, I think re tuning old reeds may not be the best idea, so I think that I would go with the new 'C' tuned down.

(Just my thoughts.)

[Scotty]

Oh, I'd leave that one in its original key and just clean it up (it could use some polishing). How are the valves, reeds and comb?
(much more important....?) I admit to knowing next to nothing about this particular brand of chromatic, but if it's a 16 in G, I'd
consider that a rare enough find to want to preserve it as is. 

For various reasons I still haven't gotten around to sending out some of my own Super 64's to be converted to other keys (by a
friend right here on SlideMeister), but there are people who can do this, and it's still on my wish list.

scotty

[The Lone Harper]

It's your chromatic, but personally I wouldn't modify it other than any necessary tinkering to brink it back up to scratch since it is such a rarity, especially since it is a 16 holer that was specifically made in the key of G!

I like that it has a mouthpiece with square holes like a 270 rather than the round holes that 16-hole Hohner instruments had with their straight tuned (which I assume this is) models of that era and Herings still do. I recently made a 16 hole mouthpiece out of two 270 mouthpieces and have found the first octave of the old Hohner and current Hering 16 hole instruments respond much better, and closer to the response of the modern cross-tuned set-up, with square holes rather than round.

[SlideMeister]

Yeah. Don't know about anyone else, but that's the first time ~I've~ ever heard of a G-16, so I'm guessing that thing has GOT to be rare. I wouldn't mess with it. Re-tune a regular 16 to B flat like everyone else does.   

[Gnarly He Man]

G2 is pretty Low, I’m like most of the posters, I wanna know how those low notes sound.
And with regard to retuning, I don’t recommend raising reeds a minor third, you are asking for trouble to raise the entire harp that much.