Author Topic: 16 hole B flat harmonica  (Read 14323 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ejacob4

  • Chrome-Minator
  • ***
  • Posts: 550
  • Member
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #60 on: June 05, 2020, 03:29:25 PM »
I believe you are asking for heartbreak to raise a 16 hole a whole step.
Just my opinion.

I just checked my Bb chromonica III. It was tuned down. It might have been Tom Stryker’s at one time. Stock mp. Romel comb. B stamped on the cover.

If there are those who believe it ought to be higher, according to hoyle, I really hate dog whistle notes and do like nice bottom. My favorite.

Best regards,
Ed

Offline Grizzly

  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,374
  • aka Tom
    • Transcriptions
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #61 on: June 05, 2020, 03:50:06 PM »
If the cover is original and was stamped "B" (Bb in German; B natural is "H"), it may be a factory tuning, as "Chromonika III" is what a Chromonica 64 was called in the American market. The Romel comb wouldn't have changed the other things.

Tom

Addendum: I happen to have a Chromonika III I got on a trade from someone years ago, and just dug it up. Even thought the standard issue 16s were Cs, the cover on them had the key, C stamped on them. This supports my suspicion that this B(b) is factory.

Also, in case I can't find the original thread about the wobbly pitch, my Chromonika III does the same thing, right at a prominent crack in the comb. Mystery solved?
working on my second 10,000!

jameshb3

  • Guest
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #62 on: June 05, 2020, 05:13:52 PM »
Oh, I'd leave that one in its original key and just clean it up (it could use some polishing). How are the valves, reeds and comb?
(much more important....?) I admit to knowing next to nothing about this particular brand of chromatic, but if it's a 16 in G, I'd
consider that a rare enough find to want to preserve it as is.  :)

For various reasons I still haven't gotten around to sending out some of my own Super 64's to be converted to other keys (by a
friend right here on SlideMeister), but there are people who can do this, and it's still on my wish list.

scotty

Hey Scotty,  I just saw your post regarding a chromatic 16 in G needing some polishing.  A couple of days ago you mentioned using some Maas polishing creme for the job.(different forum I think)  The person you were in the forum with mentioned also using it on a restoration of two "BSA" projects.  You asked if anyone knew what ""BSA" stood for.  It stands for "Birmingham Small Arms" company. They made two things really well for a short period of time.  One was of course was "small arms" and the other was a motor cycle called a "BSA" I was lucky enough to ride one of these relics in high school as my friend had one this restored of course. This was in the early 60's so I've now dated myself......HA!  None the less a very cool bike!!!!

Offline SlideMeister

  • Owner/Administrator
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 27,008
  • A.J. Fedor ><((((º>
    • A.J.'s mini-site
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #63 on: June 05, 2020, 08:34:00 PM »
Yeah, from what I understand the "small arms" part of the factory was in the center of the building (hidden from aerial photography) and Triumph motorcycles were made on one side and "Beezers" (BSA's) on the other. Pretty sneaky, but it kept the factory from being on "military target" lists. Both bikes, prior to the 70's utilized the Whitworth wrench sizes, which always drove us Yankee mechanics nuts. :P

Offline John M G

  • Chrome-Tributor
  • **
  • Posts: 258
  • Member
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #64 on: June 06, 2020, 08:40:33 AM »
Yeah, from what I understand the "small arms" part of the factory was in the center of the building (hidden from aerial photography) and Triumph motorcycles were made on one side and "Beezers" (BSA's) on the other. Pretty sneaky, but it kept the factory from being on "military target" lists. Both bikes, prior to the 70's utilized the Whitworth wrench sizes, which always drove us Yankee mechanics nuts. :P
Not quite Age, Triumphs started out in Coventry and then moved to Meriden in Warwickshire after the massive bombings of Coventry during 1941 and 2. While Triumph was taken over by BSA in 1951, they continued to manufacture Triumphs at the Meriden factory. BSA's were made at Small Heath for the main part. When things really went pear shaped in 72 they actually moved BSA assembly to the Triumph factory at the very end of BSA's life span. I think the factories changed to the US unified screw thread system of UNF and UNC in 1968, don't forget there was also the British Cycle Threads in 20 & 26 thread per inch versions, BSF and BA thread systems too, just to keep everyone on their toes!  :o ::)

Offline Scotty

  • PRESIDENT'S CLUB
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 9,749
  • Elizabeth (Scotty)
    • Myspace.com/elizabethgs
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #65 on: June 06, 2020, 11:30:30 AM »
Oh, I'd leave that one in its original key and just clean it up (it could use some polishing). How are the valves, reeds and comb?
(much more important....?) I admit to knowing next to nothing about this particular brand of chromatic, but if it's a 16 in G, I'd
consider that a rare enough find to want to preserve it as is.  :)

For various reasons I still haven't gotten around to sending out some of my own Super 64's to be converted to other keys (by a
friend right here on SlideMeister), but there are people who can do this, and it's still on my wish list.

scotty

Hey Scotty,  I just saw your post regarding a chromatic 16 in G needing some polishing.  A couple of days ago you mentioned using some Maas polishing creme for the job.(different forum I think)  The person you were in the forum with mentioned also using it on a restoration of two "BSA" projects.  You asked if anyone knew what ""BSA" stood for.  It stands for "Birmingham Small Arms" company. They made two things really well for a short period of time.  One was of course was "small arms" and the other was a motor cycle called a "BSA" I was lucky enough to ride one of these relics in high school as my friend had one this restored of course. This was in the early 60's so I've now dated myself......HA!  None the less a very cool bike!!!!
Yes, James...and sometimes I tend to allow my enthusiasm for this polish lapse over into adjoining threads, lol (especially if someone
is restoring an old, beautiful and unusual chromatic where I feel they'd want the best possible outcome). It might lead the thread astray a wee bit, but--worth the slight detour if it results in steering them in a good direction. :) John was the one who talked about the BSA bikes (and he's just responded here as well). I HAD heard of the initials as they related to bikes (but had forgotten), had no idea they related to 'small arms', though. Learn something new every day.  ;D

scotty

Offline BigDogDaddyD

  • PRESIDENT'S CLUB
  • Chrome-Tributor
  • *
  • Posts: 206
  • AKA "Marc"
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #66 on: June 08, 2020, 08:38:40 AM »
1.  Good news.  While digging around for a comb to replace the bad Rauner 64 G comb, I found an old Hohner 64 that will be a perfect candidate to do the Bb conversion.  I think it will be best to try the soldering on an older cheaper guinea pig harp first, and then do a more experienced job on a newer better harp.

2.  Also found quite a few inexpensive older chromes of all sizes online ($15-$40).  Russian, East German, West German, etc...  Ebay has many.  Seem like perfect candidates for learning to solder on, valve replacement, slide assembly improvement, etc...  Always better to mess up an old cheapie than a quality expensive new one.  Thinking if I can do the Bb retune, I'll do an A retune after.  Or just use the Bb guinea pig and continue it down to A.

3.  Got my bottle of MAAS polish.  And Scotty... you were right.  It's more like a lotion.  I grabbed a few old harp pieces and tested it.  Great that I can use my finger to work it in and around all the tight places without worrying about catching cancer from any bad chemicals.  And it rinses off easily.  And not only did it make the brass and chrome shine, it took off all kinds of seriously old and thick gunk, tarnish, and rust.  Really pleased with it.  Thanks for the heads up.  And just a little went a really long way.

  Thanks once again for everyone's help, opinions, and insights.  You folks have helped me tremendously...again.  I'll keep you posted on the 64 G harp project.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 08:44:00 AM by BigDogDaddyD »
Never give up.  Never surrender.

Offline Scotty

  • PRESIDENT'S CLUB
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 9,749
  • Elizabeth (Scotty)
    • Myspace.com/elizabethgs
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #67 on: June 08, 2020, 10:26:00 AM »
 Very cool! My motto: 'first do no harm' and keeping your 'rare find' in its original key would fit. :) Secondly, using MAAS also
fits that idea. I haven't tried the lotion myself - realizing it would likely be a lot more 'runny' than what I use from the tube (a
little dab'll do ya with that version, lol), but wanted to give you yet another heads-up: Scotts Raggs. I buy big boxes of them
(actually, am only on my 2nd box in 16 years? They sell them for automotive work (people who are fanatical about polishing
cars or bikes), but I got mine at Costco originally. They look a bit like paper towels but are much softer so don't scratch at all,
dispense easily from the box (one at a time), last far longer so can actually be used like a real cloth. I always carry a few to
SPAH with me in a zip-lock bag, and they come in very handy for working on chromatics, jewelry, etc. For polishing and buffing,
they're fantastic. You can also cut them up to use just a bit on the end of a finger to control where the polish goes, and to wipe
off afterwards. Something you might not yet have noticed...Maas also leaves protection from more rust forming, after buffing it
out. You won't feel or see it but it's there. You're very welcome.  8)

scotty

Online Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,320
  • Chroma means color
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #68 on: June 08, 2020, 04:51:54 PM »
I found an old Hohner 64 that will be a perfect candidate to do the Bb conversion.  I think it will be best to try the soldering on an older cheaper guinea pig harp first, and then do a more experienced job on a newer better harp. one.  Thinking if I can do the Bb retune, I'll do an A retune after.  Or just use the Bb guinea pig and continue it down to A.
Very cool--pays to save all your old harmonicas and parts, even if they are misbehaving.
Retuning can be very satisfying, take your time and don't forget to let it sit for a while if you can after the gross retuning is done, to allow the "stuff" to stabilize.

Offline John M G

  • Chrome-Tributor
  • **
  • Posts: 258
  • Member
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #69 on: September 06, 2020, 09:00:04 PM »
Well, I've just spent the last couple of days sorting the windsavers in the pair of the old style 64X's I have.
I seem to have managed to stop the flatulent ones on both instruments and had to open the reed gap on just the one note.
The thought of re tuning 64 reeds has lost its appeal somewhat!
I think the Bb re tune can wait for a while!!!!!

Offline Scotty

  • PRESIDENT'S CLUB
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 9,749
  • Elizabeth (Scotty)
    • Myspace.com/elizabethgs
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #70 on: September 07, 2020, 12:49:45 AM »
Well, I've just spent the last couple of days sorting the windsavers in the pair of the old style 64X's I have.
I seem to have managed to stop the flatulent ones on both instruments and had to open the reed gap on just the one note.
The thought of re tuning 64 reeds has lost its appeal somewhat!
I think the Bb re tune can wait for a while!!!!!

I don't blame you - that's why, when I finally get mine done, it'll be someone else doing it for me. ;)

What I'm interested in - is, how is your tibia healing after that awful surgery? How are you doing today?

scotty

Offline John M G

  • Chrome-Tributor
  • **
  • Posts: 258
  • Member
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #71 on: September 07, 2020, 07:52:54 AM »
Hi Scotty
I see my surgeon this Wednesday. I'm now exactly 12 weeks down the track and walking in a moon boot, albeit with the aide of forearm crutches so I am partially weight bearing.
Sleeping has improved as I can remove the moon boot for bed. It aches, but it's probably all part of the healing process. I've given up all pain killers but take the odd ibuprofen.

The best pain killer is of course buying another harmonica, so I did, a second hand as new Suzuki SCX 64 for US $120

So we're back on track for the 64 reed Bb chromatic conversion. It's just a question of which one!  ::) ;D

Offline SlideMeister

  • Owner/Administrator
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 27,008
  • A.J. Fedor ><((((º>
    • A.J.'s mini-site
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #72 on: September 07, 2020, 12:12:51 PM »
The best pain killer is of course buying another harmonica, so I did, a second hand as new Suzuki SCX 64 for US $120

Yeah, so "CBD" gets beat out by an SCX! Yippee! 8)

Online Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,320
  • Chroma means color
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #73 on: September 07, 2020, 02:40:58 PM »
I believe you are asking for heartbreak to raise a 16 hole a whole step.
Just my opinion.

I just checked my Bb chromonica III. It was tuned down. It might have been Tom Stryker’s at one time. Stock mp. Romel comb. B stamped on the cover.

If there are those who believe it ought to be higher, according to hoyle, I really hate dog whistle notes and do like nice bottom. My favorite.

Best regards,
Ed
Lucky You!
Lowering reeds is not hard, or hard on them. But retuning 64 reeds is fiddly.
Could be worse, could be someone wanting an SCT-128 retuned to B or Bb.
Four octaves is a larger range than most instruments, isn't it? Tom or someone else with a knowledge of the orchestra?

Offline Grizzly

  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,374
  • aka Tom
    • Transcriptions
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #74 on: September 07, 2020, 05:34:08 PM »
"Four octaves is a larger range than most instruments, isn't it? Tom or someone else with a knowledge of the orchestra?"

Even I would have to look them up. (I just did.) Among wind instruments, few have a range of more than three octaves. The exception is clarinet.

When you get into other instruments, ranges vary widely. Piano is 7 1/3 octaves. And violins have a four octave range. But some players can extend the upper range with special fingerings. Not very usable, generally. Flutists can play three octaves and a fifth.

But how many players use the full range on any instrument, all the time? A four octave harmonica may be useful at times, but we generally keep them within three octaves.

Tom
working on my second 10,000!

Offline Danny G

  • Happiness is a New Harmonica
  • THE PARTY GUY
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 5,721
  • Danny G
    • New Harmonica
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #75 on: September 07, 2020, 10:24:56 PM »
I've never found music the needs all of the notes available  on a 64.  But I like having them available and use most of them
How about you ?

Offline Keith

  • MasterMeister
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,094
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #76 on: September 08, 2020, 04:46:23 AM »
The tunes I mainly play can usually all fit within 10 holes, (orchestra tuned Chrometta), even 8 for a lot of them - I think this is why I don't really consider a 64 for myself, even my 14's don't see much usage, as I tend to prefer a 12 hole orchestra tuned, or a tenor. :)

Offline Scotty

  • PRESIDENT'S CLUB
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 9,749
  • Elizabeth (Scotty)
    • Myspace.com/elizabethgs
Re: 16 hole B flat harmonica
« Reply #77 on: September 08, 2020, 11:50:58 AM »
I've never found music the needs all of the notes available  on a 64.  But I like having them available and use most of them
How about you ?

Yup - Crying by Roy Orbison is one which sounds SO good on a 64 - playing it straight from the low end all the way up.

I just like having them there - but again, SO wish 16's came in other keys because I love a Key of A chromatic. Just my
personal quirk.

scotty