16 hole B flat harmonica

[Scotty]

Just picked up an old Hugo Rauner 16 hole in the key of G.  Only 16 hole I own that's not in C.  Thinking about tuning it up to A or Bb maybe.  Anybody have an idea if the older 16 holers came in different keys?  I have several old Hohner 280's.  Maybe better to leave the G alone and solder an old C harp down to Bb or A.

By the way --I've long talked about MAAS polish as the singularly best thing to use on metal instruments. It comes in a small tube (also other much larger 'tubs' for bigger projects), but just a dab'll do ya. It's nothing like Brasso or more toxic polishes or cleaners and even the tiniest amount on the end of a cloth (or a q-tip like swab) will make this chromatic glow like gold. After polishing and wiping down, it can then be washed off without affecting the shine.  Check out MAAS. It was developed by a housewife to be far less toxic than other polishes. I've used it on all of my silver jewelry, then decided to see how it worked on my Super 64's and other metal-covered chromatics, then used it on the reedplates (very carefully). It's amazing - and recommended for cleaning saxophones and other brass instruments by the manufacturer. For sure it won't harm this beautiful chromatic since it also works on gold, other delicate jewelry, glass and plastics, and I've even rubbed it into my cx-12 shells. I usually follow with a wipe-down of rubbing alcohol, though. I usually pay around $6- $8 for a tube (at my local pharmacist) and you can find it online.

scotty

[Gnarly He Man]

I have used MAAS a lot since Scotty recommended it--I bought the 1.1 lb can, and so have enough to last until Kingdom Come.

[BigDogDaddyD]

Thanks for the input everyone.  I just got it off of Ebay for $42 with shipping.  Won't see it til next week.  Asked the seller for any history info they might have on it.  No response yet.  I really enjoy getting the oldies and bringing them back to life.  I'm anxious to know which G is in hole 1 as well.  Couldn't find anything on the web.    But I've decided for now that I agree with you guys.  I should probably leave it in G and tune down a less collectible harp. 

FYI...there is a steady supply of old harps on Ebay and other auction and sales sites.  Seems to be a lot of younger folks selling parents and grandparents stuff on line.  Currently bidding on a Larry Adler 16 hole and a pre-war Chromonika III.  And some folks don't realize the treasures they have, judging by their asking prices.  If anyone has any other good sources on old harps, I'm all ears. 

And certainly, with all the age and knowledge and experience this harp has, it will make me a much better harp chewer.  HAH!

[Gnarly He Man]

If you got it for $42, I'll be real surprised it it's in G at all!

[Scotty]

I have used MAAS a lot since Scotty recommended it--I bought the 1.1 lb can, and so have enough to last until Kingdom Come.

don't think you ever mentioned this, Gary. Do you use it on customers' repaired chroms, or save it for your own? I'm finding
new uses for it all the time. For jewelry, use it with a soft toothbrush then wash off with Dawn liquid and my sterling pieces
(even my Taxco jewelry which is now very collectible) look fantastic and don't tarnish nearly as often. It was amazing luck
finding this stuff. Serendipity.

scotty

[Scotty]

Big Dog...back in the day I used to have a lot of fun buying older chromatic off Ebay for amazingly low prices. Most for under $20, lol.
I even managed a 'set' of 270's - in several different keys, one by Farrell and all in very good condition reed and comb-wise ( If I remember they were all less than $50). After a while, though--it was too much work cleaning these (sometimes quite awful) finds. Some of them had unbelievable crud built up - and that turned me off them completely. I still kept my eye out (after buying new Super 64's and beginning to accumulate CX-12's) for more of those instruments - and finally got some 'new' models. Literally a brand new gold cx-12 someone got as a graduation gift, but wasn't interested in playing since he was a blues diatonic player and the thing was a gift from his parents. He disliked everything about it. The paper wrapper hadn't even been removed! Now that was an ebay 'steal'. I still clean them anyway --my wee bit of OCD, I suppose, but it's so much fun getting the winning bid in (I'm somehow good at doing so). I still enjoy perusing the vintage ones here and there but don't buy them.  I'm at the stage where it's easier to let someone else have the fun and get to do the work. Still, an older 16 in another key than C would have caught my interest if I'd seen it.

scotty

[Gnarly He Man]

I have used MAAS a lot since Scotty recommended it--I bought the 1.1 lb can, and so have enough to last until Kingdom Come.

don't think you ever mentioned this, Gary.

I didn't mention the 50 gallon drum, no . . .
I use it mostly for harmonicas, I once handed my main harmonica to David Naiditch and he said, "How do you keep it so clean?"
Well, not by playing it, that's for sure!

[John M G]

Thanks for the heads up on the MAAS polish Scotty. I'm restoring a couple of BSA's as well as looking after my harmonicas!
Cheers John

[Scotty]

Thanks for the heads up on the MAAS polish Scotty. I'm restoring a couple of BSA's as well as looking after my harmonicas!
Cheers John

John...it must be me - today's a migraine/foggy brain' day, lol--but can you tell me what a BSA is? I haven't been able
to figure it out. As long as your project is metal and plastic this polish should work very well, but it isn't recommended
for wood (if that's  part of it?) Just wanted to make sure. Have to repeat, just the tiniest dab of this polish goes a very
long way, especially around reeds--unless you have the reedplates off and have removed the valves, then have at it--
your reedplates and reeds (if worked on very carefully) will look brand new, glow like old gold, AND retain the rust/
corrosion prevention for a long time after (one of the main things I appreciate about MAAS). I also use it on the under-
side of my metal covers --even the old Ebay bought ones which already had some rust/corrosion to remove that and
prevent any further deterioration.

scotty
PS: found my first tube at a CVS in Columbus, Ohio but bought the others online. DO shop around, the prices can vary
greatly. If you need a bigger tub, I think those might only be available directly from MAAS.

[BigDogDaddyD]

If you got it for $42, I'll be real surprised it it's in G at all!

HAH!  You're right Gary.   Some of the deals I've gotten sometimes seem too good to be true.  And some things I've had to return because they were not as advertised.  Thank goodness Ebay has their 30 day return policy.  I'm also waiting for another incredulous Ebay win to arrive - a 1950's Hohner Double Bass 58.  Keeping my fingers crossed.

And Gary, I certainly respect your professional opinion on not recommending raising reeds a minor third.  Thanks for the warning.

And Scotty... I've just ordered an 8 oz bottle of MAAS via Amazon.  And you're right about some of those oldies.  Some of them look scary.  I've found all sorts of odd things in some of them.  But others arrive like they were kept preserved.  Part of the fun.

[John M G]

Thanks for the heads up on the MAAS polish Scotty. I'm restoring a couple of BSA's as well as looking after my harmonicas!
Cheers John

John...it must be me - today's a migraine/foggy brain' day, lol--but can you tell me what a BSA is? I haven't been able
to figure it out. As long as your project is metal and plastic this polish should work very well, but it isn't recommended
for wood (if that's  part of it?) Just wanted to make sure. Have to repeat, just the tiniest dab of this polish goes a very
long way, especially around reeds--unless you have the reedplates off and have removed the valves, then have at it--
your reedplates and reeds (if worked on very carefully) will look brand new, glow like old gold, AND retain the rust/
corrosion prevention for a long time after (one of the main things I appreciate about MAAS). I also use it on the under-
side of my metal covers --even the old Ebay bought ones which already had some rust/corrosion to remove that and
prevent any further deterioration.

scotty
PS: found my first tube at a CVS in Columbus, Ohio but bought the others online. DO shop around, the prices can vary
greatly. If you need a bigger tub, I think those might only be available directly from MAAS.

Hi Scotty, Sorry about that, they were English motorcycles! They were at one time the largest manufacturer of motorcycles in the world, but like so many things British in the 60's died an ignominious death and were gone by 1972.
Beautiful looking things though!

[ejacob4]

I own a 16 hole Horner chromonica in Bb. It was owned by a pro and has a Romel lucite comb. That also means he did the retune, the mouthpiece, and refined the construction to pretty much end leakage.

Every single time I touch and play it, I’m glad I did.

Today? I’d get a used super 64 x, and get it retuned, or maybe a Suzuki. Some don’t love the sound, but I have a bunch of them and cannot blow a reed out.

Not saying another would be bad, these are the ones I know that can take it.

Ed

[Laina]

By the way --I've long talked about MAAS polish as the singularly best thing to use on metal instruments. It comes in a small tube (also other much larger 'tubs' for bigger projects), but just a dab'll do ya. It's nothing like Brasso or more toxic polishes or cleaners and even the tiniest amount on the end of a cloth (or a q-tip like swab) will make this chromatic glow like gold.
scotty

It's brilliant, thank you so much for reminding us about MAAS. Got a tube from Amazon - a little goes a long way and gives a great finish.

[John M G]

I own a 16 hole Horner chromonica in Bb. It was owned by a pro and has a Romel lucite comb. That also means he did the retune, the mouthpiece, and refined the construction to pretty much end leakage.

Every single time I touch and play it, I’m glad I did.

Today? I’d get a used super 64 x, and get it retuned, or maybe a Suzuki. Some don’t love the sound, but I have a bunch of them and cannot blow a reed out.

Not saying another would be bad, these are the ones I know that can take it.

Ed

I'm going to have a fair bit of rest time in my study soon. I'm having an osteotomy June 15th on my R/H tibia to sort out the twist and bend in the bone and I have two Super 64 X's. It's going to be a tough call to either drop one to Bb or raise one to a D? are there pro's and con's either way apart from the time investment? Soldering doesn't worry me dropping it to a lower key.
The operation is hopefully the last I'll ever have to have since breaking my leg badly during a motorcycling racing incident way back in 1983

[Gnarly He Man]

I believe you are asking for heartbreak to raise a 16 hole a whole step.
Just my opinion.

[John M G]

I believe you are asking for heartbreak to raise a 16 hole a whole step.
Just my opinion.

Hi Gnarly
Thanks for the reply, I value your assessment, I won't go there in that case.
I think I'd prefer to get another Easttop 16-64 and play around with that than modify the Super 64 X's.

[Gnarly He Man]

For a harp in D, I think the best way to is to get an A and retune it to Orchestra.
That is a better range, A3 to A6, as opposed to D3 to E6.

[SlideMeister]

I believe you are asking for heartbreak to raise a 16 hole a whole step.
Just my opinion.

I concur! Specially when ya get to #15 and#16. 

@ge ><((((º>

[Gnarly He Man]

I believe you are asking for heartbreak to raise a 16 hole a whole step.
Just my opinion.

I concur! Specially when ya get to #15 and#16. 

@ge ><((((º>

Yeah, you start off on the bottom and think, "Piece of cake" . . .
I don't mind lowering reeds but even raising a half step makes me nervous.

[SlideMeister]

Yep! Bottom notes are easy. I think folks should start at the top. After about six hours, they're praying: "Lord, if You just let me get them working again (like they were) I'll just leave the thing as it is and promise not to mess with it ever again."

@ge ><((((º>

[BigDogDaddyD]

  Got the Hugo Rauner 16 in G last night.  Field stripped it this morning.  Everything is in great shape except for the comb air channel walls.  Even the old pressed felt valves are mostly still functional.  Reeds all look and plink solid.  Slide assembly is smooth and clean.  I would venture to say this harp was not played much.  As to the air channel walls...they are badly warped.  Some are twisted to the point of a reed being viewable on both sides of the dividing walls.  Real shame.  No cracks or breaks.  Just warped badly.  Have to start comparing with my other combs to see if I can replace it.  Don't know of any way to repair air channels that are warped this bad.  Maybe I can steam the comb and put spacers in the air channels, and the walls will all magicly dry straight.  Or try some wood veneer softener on the walls.  Won't hurt to try I guess.

  The note layout was not as I had hoped for.  Starts on B2.  So first G is G3 in 3rd blow hole.  Was really hoping for G2 in first hole.  But having only spent $42, I should have a G tuned 16 hole chromatic with just a little more effort.  Can't wait to make it playable.

Slide out
Blow:  B D  G  G  B  D  G  G  B  D  G  G  B  D  G  B

Draw: C E  F# A  C  E  F# A  C  E  F# A  C  E  F# A

[Gnarly He Man]

Well, I lost my bet, it IS in G.

[SlideMeister]

Good thing I didn't bet. . (Mus-be the only 16 hole G on the planet)

[Scotty]

If you got it for $42, I'll be real surprised it it's in G at all!

HAH!  You're right Gary.   Some of the deals I've gotten sometimes seem too good to be true.  And some things I've had to return because they were not as advertised.  Thank goodness Ebay has their 30 day return policy.  I'm also waiting for another incredulous Ebay win to arrive - a 1950's Hohner Double Bass 58.  Keeping my fingers crossed.

And Gary, I certainly respect your professional opinion on not recommending raising reeds a minor third.  Thanks for the warning.

And Scotty... I've just ordered an 8 oz bottle of MAAS via Amazon.  And you're right about some of those oldies.  Some of them look scary.  I've found all sorts of odd things in some of them.  But others arrive like they were kept preserved.  Part of the fun.

Ok...the bottle holds what I think is the 'cream'. I haven't yet tried that. Hope it works as well as the stuff in the tube. IF it's too
liquidy, shake it up...you don't want it running hither and yon, especially around reeds. As to 'finding things in old chromatics'...
Not that I would have EVER played this one, but after peering inside with a flashlight I fished out an old, quite large but dessicated
spider...along with her nest and some other 'bits and pieces' I didn't care to identify (shudder). I am quite arachnophobic (sp?) so you can imagine my horrified reaction. Took me a while to locate the chrom, the flashlight and the tweezers. 

scotty

[Scotty]

By the way --I've long talked about MAAS polish as the singularly best thing to use on metal instruments. It comes in a small tube (also other much larger 'tubs' for bigger projects), but just a dab'll do ya. It's nothing like Brasso or more toxic polishes or cleaners and even the tiniest amount on the end of a cloth (or a q-tip like swab) will make this chromatic glow like gold.
scotty

It's brilliant, thank you so much for reminding us about MAAS. Got a tube from Amazon - a little goes a long way and gives a great finish.

I'm so glad you've tried and like it, Laina! I was the one who had to do all of the 'shining up' of whatever few items we had which
needed polishing as a kid before Christmas and other holidays (mostly using Brasso and other foul-smelling cleaners). I didn't mind too much because I loved the end results, but by comparison Maas is SO much less toxic and even works on glass and porcelain as well as just about all metals.

scotty

[Scotty]

"Hi Scotty, Sorry about that, they were English motorcycles! They were at one time the largest manufacturer of motorcycles in the world, but like so many things British in the 60's died an ignominious death and were gone by 1972.
Beautiful looking things though!"

John: my apologies, lol. Being British - one would think I'd have remembered...but I was quite young when we left Scotland (my
only excuse).

scotty

[Scotty]

I remember someone offering wood 16-hole combs not so long ago. Probably for Hohners, but unsure. Do a search online and just
maybe you can find one to fit your reedplates? Another option would be to have someone CNC mill a comb for you (perhaps they
could make it resemble the original?)

Personally, I think anything you can do to restore it to playing condition would be worth it - to have a 16 in G, even if it's not your optimum for the lowest note, you'll easily adapt to it.  Having a playable 16 G should be a fun adventure.

scotty

[John Broecker]

Big Dog Daddy:

I have a 16-hole VERMONA Weltmeister, boat-shaped comb,
slide chromatic harmonica, in C.

You might want to look at it, to see if your Rauner reed plates
would fit the VERMONA maroon plastic comb and slide assembly,
or if the VERMONA parts would fit your Rauner.

The Vermona company (1953-'64) was part of a merger of
harmonica companies (VEReinigte MundharMONicawerke,
located in the old (pre-1946) Seydel factory, Klingenthal,
East Germany.

Contact me (include your email address and postal address
in the email), at:

johnbroecker1962@outlook.com

[Scotty]

I own a 16 hole Horner chromonica in Bb. It was owned by a pro and has a Romel lucite comb. That also means he did the retune, the mouthpiece, and refined the construction to pretty much end leakage.

Every single time I touch and play it, I’m glad I did.

Today? I’d get a used super 64 x, and get it retuned, or maybe a Suzuki. Some don’t love the sound, but I have a bunch of them and cannot blow a reed out.

Not saying another would be bad, these are the ones I know that can take it.

Ed

I'm going to have a fair bit of rest time in my study soon. I'm having an osteotomy June 15th on my R/H tibia to sort out the twist and bend in the bone and I have two Super 64 X's. It's going to be a tough call to either drop one to Bb or raise one to a D? are there pro's and con's either way apart from the time investment? Soldering doesn't worry me dropping it to a lower key.
The operation is hopefully the last I'll ever have to have since breaking my leg badly during a motorcycling racing incident way back in 1983

Aaargh! Someone else having a major bone surgery....sorry I missed this post, John. Am sure hoping all goes well with the minimum
of pain and discomfort and that you do have your leg straightened out. It sounds 'uncomfortable' at the very least, so you have my
utmost sympathies.

scotty

[jameshb3]

Streetlegal,  welcome!  I've seen one company.....Hohner makes a  "CHROMATICA" in Bb. Not sure of the exact pricing though.  Might not be too inexpensive though, as are the more special tuning chromatics......check out "Rockin Ron's" for a good price if he can get one.  And or see if any other SlideMeister member might have something used in that tuning.......good luck. James