Author Topic: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom  (Read 6603 times)

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ET

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10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« on: January 24, 2011, 10:40:42 AM »
Hello,

I've been playing my Seydel standard 40 for a while now and it is a nice harmonica to learn on - infinitely better than the Chrometta which put me off chromatic harmonica for years!

I am now looking to upgrade to a valved model with less air leakage and am pretty sure on the tuning scheme. However I don't want or need anything bigger - the range of a 10 hole with the F on the top hole blow/slide in raised up to a G is enough for me. I also want the harmonica to be bebop tuned. Any ideas on a suitable model / customiser. I seem to be a bit limited with choice.

Cheers, ET

RolandTumbler

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2011, 03:50:13 PM »
10 Hole BebopAs to the second question, Mr. Gnarly He Man right here on this board does outstanding work for a very reasonable price (especially considering his formidable expertise). Quick turn-around, too. Plus he PLAYS (and plays Bebop, at that!).

As to the first, please consider going for a 12-hole, especially if this is to be your only better instrument. If you're 'moving up', as you say, you'll need it soon. I recently have a started playing a Suzuki SCX-48 tuned to C7 Bebop. It's a fine instrument, and a compelling one to play - hard to put down.


Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2011, 09:25:55 PM »
Yep, I'm open for business.
I like the Hohner 260 for a 10 hole instrument--I am happy to sell you a used one with bebop tuning.
You can pmail me at my day job, working for Suzuki Harmonicas--if you are interested.
glehmann@suzukicorp.com
No, Suzuki doesn't make a 10 hole chrom  :P
Gary

ET

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2011, 03:49:17 AM »
If I was to go for a 12 hole I would go for the extra range at the bottom for sure. Someone on here said that the G down there is the lowest really useful note, and I would say that the G at the top is the highest (none of the classical music I have goes above this G). So a 12 hole in MK (orchestra) bebop tuning may be the solution, with the top F (blow/slide in) retuned to give a high-G. I would prefer a harmonica with a plastic body I think.
Cheers, Ed

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2011, 10:15:24 AM »
If I was to go for a 12 hole I would go for the extra range at the bottom for sure. Someone on here said that the G down there is the lowest really useful note, and I would say that the G at the top is the highest (none of the classical music I have goes above this G). So a 12 hole in MK (orchestra) bebop tuning may be the solution, with the top F (blow/slide in) retuned to give a high-G. I would prefer a harmonica with a plastic body I think.
Cheers, Ed
That's the tuning I did for Roland--Orchestra tuned, with the high G.
I would say I play bebop very very slowly--mostly I am a variety player--currently having fun with the melody to "Long Ago and Far Away" by James Taylor--I like long legato tones on the chrom.
Gary

RolandTumbler

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2011, 03:35:31 PM »
If I was to go for a 12 hole I would go for the extra range at the bottom for sure. Someone on here said that the G down there is the lowest really useful note, and I would say that the G at the top is the highest (none of the classical music I have goes above this G). So a 12 hole in MK (orchestra) bebop tuning may be the solution, with the top F (blow/slide in) retuned to give a high-G. I would prefer a harmonica with a plastic body I think.
Cheers, Ed
Ed, exactly what I have. And the SCX seems very compact compared to a CX-12 or a 16-hole, very substantial to hold, but compact. Almost as compact as a Chrometta 10, but loads easier to play.

Wish I could show it to you...

oldstudent

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2011, 04:10:21 PM »
Someone on here said that the G down there is the lowest really useful note, and I would say that the G at the top is the highest...
This is for playing mainly in what keys?
(Surely the usefulness of a note must depend on what key you are playing in, and so I assume that the discussion here is based on a shared understanding of what keys you would be playing most often. ...Unless you mean that the notes below the low G just sound bad in these harmonicas.)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 04:38:09 PM by oldstudent »

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2011, 04:38:02 PM »
The low G isn't about key, it's about range.
It annoys me that standard chromatic starts on middle C--
The G we are talking about is the open 4th string of the violin, it's not that low (I'm a guitar player, that note is the open 3rd string, and the guitar goes down another octave and a minor 3rd.
So I would say, as far as keys, G, C, F, Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, F# (although the low F# is missing!).
And probably D too, if you are used to it--certainly Dm, but that's either F or C, probably. Or D7, but that's G.
G

oldstudent

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2011, 05:05:50 PM »
Hi Gary, thanks for the clarification.
I guess that the "lowest useful note" that you're referring to is what Seydel's configurator calls G3.
-Roger
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 05:28:09 PM by oldstudent »

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2011, 07:15:13 PM »
That's what I call it too  8)
G

oldstudent

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2011, 01:15:13 AM »
I thought you might.
Please, let me ask one more question.  The high G above which ET would rather not go, would that be G6 or G7?

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2011, 01:18:48 AM »
Let's see . . .
On a 16 hole harp, hole one blow is C3 . . . so 5 is 4, 9 is 5, 13 is 6 and hole 16 is C7.
So the G below that is G6.
How'd I do?  ;D
G

ET

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2011, 04:00:30 AM »
Perhaps 'useful' was the wrong word. I play in all keys and in various genres. It would be nice to have all the extra notes of a 16-hole say, but I think for me the best compromise between size and range is probably 12 holes covering 3 octaves from G3 to G6.

Ed

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2011, 11:03:37 AM »
Right--
My new standard is the SCX series by Suzuki (I am the US harmonica technician).
The 56 is the most useful model, but the 64 is very airtight--
But I still like the 48, for its size. However, I want to have the G below (G3, as it were) and don't care as much about the top octave (C6 thru C7).
Gary

Offline Grizzly

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2011, 11:47:34 AM »
Will my Super 64 reedplates fit into an SCX 64?

Tom
working on my second 10,000!

ET

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2011, 05:25:41 PM »
If I was to go for a 12 hole I would go for the extra range at the bottom for sure. Someone on here said that the G down there is the lowest really useful note, and I would say that the G at the top is the highest (none of the classical music I have goes above this G). So a 12 hole in MK (orchestra) bebop tuning may be the solution, with the top F (blow/slide in) retuned to give a high-G. I would prefer a harmonica with a plastic body I think.
Cheers, Ed
Ed, exactly what I have. And the SCX seems very compact compared to a CX-12 or a 16-hole, very substantial to hold, but compact. Almost as compact as a Chrometta 10, but loads easier to play.

Wish I could show it to you...
I do like the looks of the SCX. Was that modified from a stock G chromatic? I'm going to think on it a while. In the meantime I might buy a Hering Baritono (and I thought moving to chromatic would end these multiple harmonica purchases!) to play some horn concertos. Thanks for your advice all :)

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2011, 11:54:15 PM »
I do like the looks of the SCX. Was that modified from a stock G chromatic? I'm going to think on it a while.
Yes, it was a SCX-48 in G when it started.
G

chromaticblues

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2011, 09:35:45 PM »
What is Bebop tuning exactly? I thought all chroms were ET tuning.

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2011, 09:54:03 PM »
Glad you asked  :)
Most all chroms are ET tuning, in a solo tuning arrangement--the same as the middle octave of a diatonic harmonica.
Blow draw blow draw blow draw draw blow is C D E F G A B C
So that puts two C notes next to each other, holes 4 and 5 and holes 8 and 9.
It also requires you to reverse breath direction on holes 4 and 8 as the draw is lower than the blow.
Bebop tuning changes the 4 and 8 blow from C to Bb, and no manufacturer seems to ship them that way stock. Seydel does custom tunings, and it sounds like Hohner is starting to as well, but that's custom.
So my harmonicas go blow draw blow draw blow draw blow draw for C D E F G A Bb B
For the most part  ;D

chromaticblues

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2011, 02:08:41 PM »
OH That makes a lot of sence. I always wanted to remove the 4 and 8 hole reeds a swap them. I'm mostly a blues/Jazzy Pop Rock type of chrom player. I always thought that warbles and four hole splits would be so much better with that note lay out. I have thought about doing it for 15 years now! Thats it I'm just going to dive in!
Thanks Gnarly He Dude!

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2011, 07:12:31 PM »
Yer welcome!
Some folks also will tune the redundant C to A--
Then if you tune the F notes sharp, you have that Magic Bop IV6/V6 tuning I am using as a diatonic (it also makes a swell chromatic--and I have a 10 hole for sale).
https://forums.SlideMeister.com/index.php?topic=4811.msg55527;topicseen
G

chromaticblues

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2011, 02:10:18 PM »
Naw Thats to crazy for me. The Bebop tuning will easy to get use to cause it makes sense. Plus I'm jumping in feet first into half valving. So I need to get one harp done and done well! Then practice and figure out all the nuances of a harp like that. I'm syched! I haven't been this excited about playing the chrom in awhile!

chromaticblues

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2011, 08:25:34 PM »
@ Gnarly He Man
How do you change the tuning on holes 4,8 and 12. I would assume you would remove the reeds and swap them around, but I have not had much luck! Oh I suck at it! I've tried it, but haven't figured it out yet. Do you just retune them? Adding wiewght to bring the C down to B isn't hard, but bringing the B up to C is removing alot of material onthe small reeds like hole 8 and 12.
Anybody? 

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2011, 10:04:46 PM »
You don't raise the B to C.
Only blow 4 and 8 (and 12 on a 16 hole, or the second hole on a 14 hole) are lowered (along with their button notes).

chromaticblues

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2011, 09:56:00 AM »
Thanks Gnarly He Man
I just reread your post and saw that I read what I wanted to instead of what you printed. When I said I have been wanting to do this for awhile. I meant swapping the B and C notes around on holes 4 and 8 on a 260. Thanks for pointing that out.

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2011, 10:02:52 AM »
They call that classical tuning, and I did a 260 for Grizzly like that, let's get his opinion!
Oh Tom . . .

Offline Grizzly

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2011, 10:25:13 AM »
They call that classical tuning, and I did a 260 for Grizzly like that, let's get his opinion!
Oh Tom . . .
I tried it a few times, but never devoted enough time on it to become comfortable.

Tom
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chromaticblues

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2011, 03:24:47 PM »
Grizzly would you like to sell it?

Offline Grizzly

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Re: 10 Hole Bebop tuned chrom
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2011, 03:43:18 PM »
Grizzly would you like to sell it?
I have to think about it. PM or e-mail me in a few days.

Tom
working on my second 10,000!