The Tremolo Fan Club Thread

[BeauKim]

Does anyone have a favorite tremolo rate (tuning)?  I just played my two Suzuki Humming tremolos and had to finely adjust a few notes.  They are beautiful sounding and playing instruments.

For me, the tremolo rate can depend on the musical context.  You can compare the rates on here http://www.patmissin.com/tunings/tun10.html .   Generally I lean towards slightly or moderately wet tuning.  Wet tuning can be nice but I think that would fit best with a larger ensemble or some polka music.

[terryg]

I am not sure if this is what you are talking about, concerning tuning, but here goes.

My absolute favorite tremolo, is the Seydel Fanfare S.  It is Solo tuned.  I know it's not dry, it is wet, how wet, I don't know.  It is my favorite harmonica of any kind.

I have two Suzuki Humming that never get played.  To dry for my taste.  C & D.

I am a huge Solo tuned fan.  That's a really great reason to like  chromatics, which I do, very much so.

[J.R.]

I've been trying some Mexican songs lately (specially, "La Cucaracha" and "Las Mañanitas"). Today I played them with the tremolo and they sounded great, like "very Mexican".

You may find this album interesting.

Sounds great. Thanks!

[John Broecker]

To me, Mexican music sounds best when played on an
octave-tuned harmonica, Richter system.

If you like Mexican music, the Mariachi style
("marriage") is great for parties.

My favorite Mariachi tune is "Zacatecas", copyrighted
in 1903, Carl Fischer publisher, and composed by
music composer Senior Genaro Codina.

Genaro had a wager at a party, that he could compose
a Mariachi tune in the German polka style, at the party.
He won the bet.

The tune was named after a state in Mexico, Zacatecas.

JB

 

[BeauKim]

I am not sure if this is what you are talking about, concerning tuning, but here goes.

My absolute favorite tremolo, is the Seydel Fanfare S.  It is Solo tuned.  I know it's not dry, it is wet, how wet, I don't know.  It is my favorite harmonica of any kind.

I have two Suzuki Humming that never get played.  To dry for my taste.  C & D.

I am a huge Solo tuned fan.  That's a really great reason to like  chromatics, which I do, very much so.

Midway through the link I posted gives audio examples of dry to wet tunings.  Do you find that the solo tuning helps you from getting mixed up when going back to the chromatic?  The Suzuki's "Asian solo" tuning is a bit tricky to adjust to from chromatic and diatonic, but it still works. 

[Keith]

Having solo tuned harmonicas certainly helps when switching between chromatic, tremolo, & diatonic - but it isn't too great a step to play Asian solo tuned tremolos or Richter tuned diatonics, once you've worked out the differences with the 'C's.

Wet or dry, doesn't really worry me, I have Seydel Fanfare S, Suzuki & Tombo tremolos.

[terryg]

I am not sure if this is what you are talking about, concerning tuning, but here goes.

My absolute favorite tremolo, is the Seydel Fanfare S.  It is Solo tuned.  I know it's not dry, it is wet, how wet, I don't know.  It is my favorite harmonica of any kind.

I have two Suzuki Humming that never get played.  To dry for my taste.  C & D.

I am a huge Solo tuned fan.  That's a really great reason to like  chromatics, which I do, very much so.

Midway through the link I posted gives audio examples of dry to wet tunings.  Do you find that the solo tuning helps you from getting mixed up when going back to the chromatic?  The Suzuki's "Asian solo" tuning is a bit tricky to adjust to from chromatic and diatonic, but it still works.

I don't find it a problem switching back to the Richter tuning.  Which is seldom.  My opinions are based on being a newbie.  Approx 4.5 years.

Being a newbie, and starting my harmonica career so late in life, probably influenced my decision to favor solo tuning.  John Broecker, has stated that a solo tuned harp is easier for a beginner than other tunings.  I agree.  When John writes, I read and heed;  most of the time.

[beads]

Does anyone have a favorite tremolo rate (tuning)?  I just played my two Suzuki Humming tremolos and had to finely adjust a few notes.  They are beautiful sounding and playing instruments.

For me, the tremolo rate can depend on the musical context.  You can compare the rates on here http://www.patmissin.com/tunings/tun10.html .   Generally I lean towards slightly or moderately wet tuning.  Wet tuning can be nice but I think that would fit best with a larger ensemble or some polka music.

My experience is the same. Suzuki tremolo harps sound great but since the tremolo is dry there is very little room for error in tuning. Hypothetical numbers: Let's say top reed is 440 and bottom reed is 448, then a 2 cycle difference in the bottom reed will change the tremolo rate by 25%. If the tremolo rate is is doubled the top reed is 440 and the bottom reed is 456. Now a two cycle difference changes the tremolo rate by 12.5%. These are made up numbers for easy math just to show how this works. New reeds can drift slightly with time and much playing and may need a very slight tuning adjustment. I have had to do this with several reeds on several Suzuki tremolo harps. They played well enough after a year and many people may not notice the difference in tremolo rates between notes, but I did. It was easily corrected by tiny adjustments. Those tiny adjustments have held over the years. It is not something you have to do again, in my experience. Before you do this clean your harp to make sure there is no dried saliva on the reeds that might be causing a frequency change. By tiny adjustments I mean DO NOT do this with a Dremel tool! I use Andrew Zajac's 5 cent tuner. For stainless steel reeds I use a Dremel bit but not powered. 
Hohner and Seydel tremolo harps have faster tremolo rates. In my experience the stainless steel reeds are very stable in their tuning. However, brass and phosphor bronze reeds stay in tune and sound good once you have played them awhile and fine tuned them.
As far as prefered rates, I like the dry tremolo for slow tunes played one note at a time. The song Danny Boy for example. For medium tempo tunes or tunes that you add a lot of chords or vamping to I prefer the wetter German harps. For really fast tunes such as an Irish reel I think it makes no difference since you don't stay on a note long enough to notice the tremolo effect.
Here's a little trick. While you are playing, if you notice one note has too much or too little tremolo when compared to the neighboring notes, you can actually adjust it while you play. If you restrict the airflow to a reed it will go flat a bit. Push the harp up a little against you top lip to restrict the airflow to the top reed and it will slow down thereby creating more difference with the bottom reed and more tremolo effect. Pull the harp down a little against your bottom lip and it will restrict the airflow to the bottom reed and slow it down thereby creating less difference with the top reed and a slower tremolo effect. I have used this while performing a slow piece. On fast music it isn't needed and probably would be very hard to pull off anyway. Sometimes just blowing harder will change the tremolo rate, especially on high notes.
The Suzuki harps seem to be ET and better for single note playing but you can do some chording on them. The German harps I have are closer to Just Intonation and have lovely chords. I have both Japanese and German tremolos in my most used keys because different music sounds better on one or the other.

[terryg]

Rex, I promise to never argue with you concerning tremolo harmonicas.  Never never.  You are amazing my friend.

[captainsteve]

                        Growing up in europe the typical pub accordian sound was more similar to the
                       tremolo and/or octave harp sound. I recently bought a batch of new Swan tremolo
                        harps which are pretty good in tonal quality but yes quite dry in tuning.
                         Im not sure what the asian style of music is like that these are used for. This
                       led  to the discovery that tuning differences are not just product related but regional.
                      I still have an  echo  which was given to me when I was 7 or 8 and still enjoy some
                        folk songs like type of stuff and it goes well . I will follow up on some of the suggestions
                          in this thread because some of my questions to north american harmonica
                          sellers have gone unanswered.
                         

[HUGO]

REGARDING THE "WETNESS" OF A TREMOLOS' TONE:
The tone produced by the harmonica is of greater importance when practicing or, playing "in the Parlor." When playing out, you'll need to amplify your signal. Effects processors (reverb, echo, delay, etc.) are quite common. They make it a breeze to sculpt your tone, add all the "Wetness" you like.

REGARDING TUNING:
Playing guitar / harmonica simultaneously, I appreciate Solo Tuned Tremolos which allow me to seamlessly switch between them and my Chroms. The majority of Tremolos available are Asian tuned.

ASIAN TREMOLO CHROMATIC METHOD
Alternating between (2) tremolos held together, that are tuned 1/2 step apart  i.e. C & C# gives you access to the chromatic scale. 

AUDIENCE RESPONSE
The invariable response to my Tremolo playing is that it comes across like an accordion.

[BeauKim]

Does anyone have a favorite tremolo rate (tuning)?  I just played my two Suzuki Humming tremolos and had to finely adjust a few notes.  They are beautiful sounding and playing instruments.

For me, the tremolo rate can depend on the musical context.  You can compare the rates on here http://www.patmissin.com/tunings/tun10.html .   Generally I lean towards slightly or moderately wet tuning.  Wet tuning can be nice but I think that would fit best with a larger ensemble or some polka music.

My experience is the same. Suzuki tremolo harps sound great but since the tremolo is dry there is very little room for error in tuning. Hypothetical numbers: Let's say top reed is 440 and bottom reed is 448, then a 2 cycle difference in the bottom reed will change the tremolo rate by 25%. If the tremolo rate is is doubled the top reed is 440 and the bottom reed is 456. Now a two cycle difference changes the tremolo rate by 12.5%. These are made up numbers for easy math just to show how this works. New reeds can drift slightly with time and much playing and may need a very slight tuning adjustment. I have had to do this with several reeds on several Suzuki tremolo harps. They played well enough after a year and many people may not notice the difference in tremolo rates between notes, but I did. It was easily corrected by tiny adjustments. Those tiny adjustments have held over the years. It is not something you have to do again, in my experience. Before you do this clean your harp to make sure there is no dried saliva on the reeds that might be causing a frequency change. By tiny adjustments I mean DO NOT do this with a Dremel tool! I use Andrew Zajac's 5 cent tuner. For stainless steel reeds I use a Dremel bit but not powered. 
Hohner and Seydel tremolo harps have faster tremolo rates. In my experience the stainless steel reeds are very stable in their tuning. However, brass and phosphor bronze reeds stay in tune and sound good once you have played them awhile and fine tuned them.
As far as prefered rates, I like the dry tremolo for slow tunes played one note at a time. The song Danny Boy for example. For medium tempo tunes or tunes that you add a lot of chords or vamping to I prefer the wetter German harps. For really fast tunes such as an Irish reel I think it makes no difference since you don't stay on a note long enough to notice the tremolo effect.
Here's a little trick. While you are playing, if you notice one note has too much or too little tremolo when compared to the neighboring notes, you can actually adjust it while you play. If you restrict the airflow to a reed it will go flat a bit. Push the harp up a little against you top lip to restrict the airflow to the top reed and it will slow down thereby creating more difference with the bottom reed and more tremolo effect. Pull the harp down a little against your bottom lip and it will restrict the airflow to the bottom reed and slow it down thereby creating less difference with the top reed and a slower tremolo effect. I have used this while performing a slow piece. On fast music it isn't needed and probably would be very hard to pull off anyway. Sometimes just blowing harder will change the tremolo rate, especially on high notes.
The Suzuki harps seem to be ET and better for single note playing but you can do some chording on them. The German harps I have are closer to Just Intonation and have lovely chords. I have both Japanese and German tremolos in my most used keys because different music sounds better on one or the other.

Very nice response, Rex!  (Btw, I think we sat next to each other at SPAH at the James Conway teach-in about corner switching.). I have noticed ways to vary the tremolo rate like you've mentioned.  My C# Suzuki was mostly tuned moderately wet, while the C was much more consistently mostly dry.  I finely tuned each so they are moderately wet so they sound a little warmer.

 Have you tried playing a C and C# (or any other pair in a half step apart) stacked together so you have access to all of the chromatic notes?  I occasionally mess with that, and have been more inspired to as of two weeks ago. 

[beads]

Hi BeauKim. I have not tried playing tremolo chromatically. I do have an A and a Bb so I could try. On several songs I use two harps but they are usually a 5th apart (C and G or D and A) and I switch for different sections of a tune, but never for just a note or two. Here is an example of such a tune:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzn6dpH6cxQ

[terryg]

Is the Seydel Fanfare S, the best tremolo harmonica, made today?   I own Swan. Herring, Tombo, Suzuki, Easttop, and Hohner, tremolo harmonicas.   
In my opinion, and we all know about the worth of opinions, the Fanfare S, is the absolute best tremolo I have ever played. 

Right out of the box, every note, high and low, the notes are perfect.  I just can't imagine a better harp.  If there is, sure would like to know.

Please disagree with me if you like.  Won't hurt my feelings.  I am just very curious as to what other S owners have to say.

[Keith]

The Fanfare-S works for me because of the hole spacing & the solo tuning.

I have other Seydel chromatics, & keeping the 9.5mm hole centres makes it easy to go between them & the Fanfare-S.

I also like the spacing of a regular tremolo, but get a bit confused where the notes are at times, (Asian solo tuned).

Edit: It takes me a bit of time to adjust to the 9mm spacing of Hohner & Suzuki - &, of course, the 8mm spacing of my Seydel diatonics, (Orchestra & Richter) - I totally gave up on the Special 20 7.5mm spacing, & still have trouble with the Mini 6mm spacing, (but I only bought the tiddlers for some fun).

[HUGO]

"Is the Fanfare S the best?"

I thoroughly enjoy my Fanfare Steel in C and hope to add more keys to my collection. I alternate between playing it and the wonderful Seydel Mountain Harp. The MH is sadly now out-of-production.

 These two Seydels' came out on top when compared to my Hohner Echo Celestes', Suzuki Hummings and Suzuki Baritone. The Baritone which may be the finest Tremolo I've ever played. Ultra responsive, tuned perfectly IMHO. Sadly, their Asian tuning is so much different from the Solo Tuning I'm use to that I find the non-Seydels unusable.

The Tremolo website has great reviews:
http://thetremolo.ponderworthy.com/reviews.html

Alejo

[terryg]

I too love my Seydel Mountain harp.  Double sided C & G;  Loud and forgiving.   I use it almost exclusively to accompany my mountain dulcimer, on three old folk songs.  Adds lots of music to all three songs.   

The durability of the SMH is amazing. 

But the Fanfare S........oh my, what a beautiful voice.  Just over the top playing gospel.

[beads]

Hey Terry. I don't have a Fanfare SS but I do have 4 Seydel tremolo harps with stainless steel reeds. 3 Sailors and 1 Skydiver. They are excellent. Of course you get what you pay for. The Fanfare, Sailor, and Skydiver with stainless steel reeds are not inexpensive harps. Mine came tuned very well and they stay that way. They are very stable and don't seem to mind temperature changes. Here is a recording I made just last week with the high pitched D Sailor. I have not tweaked this harp at all and have probably had it for a year.
https://soundcloud.com/tremolo-rex/mein-hut-in-d
Mein Hut is a German folk song. English is My Hat.

[terryg]

Hey Rex,
Is the Sailor  solo tuned?  I think I read that it is.

Rex, you have your very own style, and you are an expert.  I enjoy your playing very much.  Always have.

When I practice, I switch back and forth between the Fanfare, and two chromatic harmonica.   Helps to determine which one sounds best for a particular song.

I am still just a melody player.  Just trying to sound the best I can be, at this moment in time. 

Two other harps I enjoy playing are both tremolid.  The Seydel Mountain and a Hohner Premium 21, key of D.   

I feel like I have a good arsenal now, which should carry me for awhile.   Temporary,  I am a one handed player, due to joint replacement surgery in my right pointer finger, two weeks ago.

Last week I sold a mountain dulcimer for a handsome sum.  So my wild money is in good shape now.   Hopefully, HAS will allow me to sit on it for awhile.  I need a new trolling motor for my boat, more than another harmonica.   It's a very tough life.

[beads]

Terry, the steel reed Sailor is Richter tuned. I belive the older brass reed Sailor was solo tuned but I don't own one. The Skydiver is Asian tuned like the Suzuki or Tombo harps. In Japan they don't call it Asian tuned, but have an actual name for that note layout but I don't remember it and probably couldn't spell or pronounce it correctly anyway. The Fanfare is a true solo tuned harp.
One handed playing works well with a tremolo. I have seen Irish players hold the harp with just one hand. Here is a video where I use just one hand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T3lXN0RXm4
If you go the videos page on my Youtube channel there are several videos labeled Christmas. They are numbered. I was demonstrating some Christmas music so they are not performances and there is a lot of talking. I was moving papers around with one hand so I was holding the harmonicas with just one hand. You may get an idea of how to hold a harp one handed from those also. I am right handed but use the left hand when playing one handed.
Here is a playlist of the Christmas videos. One handed through most of them, I think.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJ1G4oHit4xggh5WIKVhNywV_-SWjeK3n
Sometimes I want my fingers in front of the harp because I think it gives a more mellow sound. Otherwise the sound is bright.

[terryg]

Thanks, Rex.  Excellent how to videos.

[terryg]

Rex, or anyone else.

When you perform live, playing, for the most part, gospel songs, what are the top 4 keys you play?

For me, in rank of use:  C, A, Bb, and D.   Residents of senior homes seem to prefer key of A.   

The only G , I own is a 10 hole diatonic Easttop, which I never play.  I ask the question above because i am thinking of purchasing a G tremolo.., or an Easttop SS48 in G. 

Just curious.

[Keith]

I don't play out, but I have a Tombo Band 21 in 'G', & it is lower than my Suzuki SU-21 'A', (which is lower than the 'C').

I think as we get older we don't hear the high notes so well, so prefer the lower ones. I certainly do.

[terryg]

Keith, I also like Tombo tremolo.  I have a D, and I use it occasionally.   

I'm just really partial to solo tuned harmonica.  Once in a blue moon I travel a hundred miles to play with a mountain dulcimer group.  They only play in D.  So the Tombo D comes in handy a couple of times a year. 

[beads]

Rex, or anyone else.

When you perform live, playing, for the most part, gospel songs, what are the top 4 keys you play?

For me, in rank of use:  C, A, Bb, and D.   Residents of senior homes seem to prefer key of A.   

The only G , I own is a 10 hole diatonic Easttop, which I never play.  I ask the question above because i am thinking of purchasing a G tremolo.., or an Easttop SS48 in G. 

Just curious.

I use low D, G, A, Bb, C, and D. Both Richters and Asian. Some dry and some wet tremolo. They all get used. Depends on the music. If I am playing with other musicians then the group obviously decides the key. The low D is used the least. Higher notes on higher pitched harps demand precise tuning, good embrouchre and good breath force control to get the best sound. I used to prefer the lower key harps but now I appreciate them all. One day I would like to get an F but I don't really need one. When playing in public I set the tone control on my amp so it takes some of the shrillness out of the high notes. I use a Shure SM 58 which can boost the low end by playing off center or up close using the proximity effect.

[IAN]

When I'm with my pals and put my fiddle down, I use the Hohner 56/96 C/G and the Hohner Song Band, both C Tremolo tuning and C Organ tuning.
As we only play acoustically, the Hohners are loud and bright enough to be heard over the other instruments. The Song Band is also ideal for me to hold it and an 11" tambourine in my left hand and rattle out a rhythmic accompaniment with my right hand.
It really is good old fashioned music making.

Ian.

[terryg]

Many thanks for your replies  above.   I find it interesting to read what others do.

Ian, the Hohner 56/96 t remolo c/g, appears to be similar to my Seydel Mountain c/g 84.  Easy to play, loud, and forgiving.  Most importantly,  it's a solo tuned.  Thank goodness for Seydel.

Rex,  what about the key if E?   It's the only key in which I don't own a harp.   Why?  I don't know why.  No clue.  The only F, I own, is an Easttop 10 hole diatonic. 

[IAN]

Hi Terryg,

I agree, it really is interesting to know what others think about their instruments and how they choose them for the music they play.

I've only ever played Hohner and my tremolos all have the Richter note placement. I'm comfortable with that layout after so many years of using it. However, that is only for harmonicas up to the size of the 56/96. I have a 57/120 that admittedly, through lack of dedicated practice, is still mind boggling in the top octave. It is a terrific instrument, but offers me more than I really need. For example, I've had a great two hour session this morning with my Dad. He had a Hohner Echo 48 G and I used my little 54/64 C/G for a change.

I'm very happy to have found what works for me and having overheard me say as much, the 'Boss' is delighted that I have no excuse to try anything new.

Regards, Ian

[beads]

Rex,  what about the key if E?   It's the only key in which I don't own a harp.   Why?  I don't know why.  No clue.  The only F, I own, is an Easttop 10 hole diatonic.

I don't have an E tremolo and do not plan on getting one.  Blues and rock players seem to like the key of E but they use an A harp to play in E. I focus on hymns, Gospel, traditional, old time, and Celtic music. E doesn't get used much in my musical world. I have an E Melody Maker which is a retuned A Lee Oskar. It works great but I still don't play much in E. I have an Eb Lee Oskar which I use to play in Bb second position. I know some folks like to have all keys so they are prepared for any occasion. I find limiting my keys to what I use most gives me a good excuse to sit out on some tunes. That seems to make the rest of my playing more appreciated. A harmonica player who plays all the time on all the tunes might wear out his or her welcome.

[terryg]

Ian, good to read that you play music with your dad.  I get great pleasure playing with my son.  He is an accomplished guitarist,  while I am very much  an amateur with the instruments I play.  But he is very patient.   He never criticizes,  just smiles at me.

Rex, I never play with an actual band, church or anywhere else.  I love being a one man show.  I guess I love the attention.   However,  a resident at one of the ALH I play at each week, is playing piano with me.  It's worked out well so far.   Since I can't play strings right now,  on a couple of songs only she plays, while I lead singing.
I've known her for at least 35 years.  She is thrilled to help me, as it gives her a purpose and a little fame.