Author Topic: Slide oil  (Read 4152 times)

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Offline Scotty

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2020, 09:29:28 PM »
The thin of warm water/actuate slide after each play tip works well for me, also SmoJoe's method of shallow water tray - all great advice thanks.  I find microfibre cloths useful for removing residue and  -  think it was Scotty's tip - special none-fleecing Qtips around the holes
When removing the slide for further cleaning I've been trying a small dab of organic coconut oil along the slide. Seems to keep it nice and smooth with no issues so far. A little goes a long way.

Yes.  :) They're actually makeup swabs (probably meant for eye shadow?) Come in a plastic dispenser/container. I get about 100 for around a dollar. They're rounded but flattened at what would usually be the rounded, puffy end of a Q-tip and much more tightly wound. The other end is again also very tightly wound so no fibers shed, but pointed. They last forever - I think I'm only on my 2nd box and find them perfect for cleaning every aspect of any harmonica, especially chromatics. :) I use them with MAAS as well, when trying to get into very small areas to clean and polish.

scotty

Offline Vern

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2020, 03:12:19 AM »
Whatever happened to the "nothing but water" commandment?

For years I have used Johnson's paste floor wax.  A very well-polished light coat is thin, invisible, dry, and doesn't pick up dirt.  It seems to reduce sticking. 

Many years ago my young son and I won pinewood derby races by lubricating the wheels with it. We also waxed the wheels where they came in contact with the guide rails.

Vern

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2020, 09:14:35 AM »
Just a little piece of wisdom. Whatever gets put on will eventually have to get cleaned off.
And
Getting it off is always harder than getting it on was.

Best regards,
Ed

Offline Old Age

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2020, 12:13:58 PM »
Hear-Hear! :)

Offline Scotty

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2020, 12:31:41 PM »
Just a little piece of wisdom. Whatever gets put on will eventually have to get cleaned off.
And
Getting it off is always harder than getting it on was.

Best regards,
Ed
Fwiw, the MAAS polish I use to clean up grunge and rust on metal surfaces and to shine them up is always cleaned off (wiped as well as rinsed thoroughly with plain water and dried, or rubbing alcohol) before reassembling, just in case there's any misunderstanding. I primarily use it for older instruments--and a little goes a very long way. I haven't had to re-use it very often on my newer instruments --other than the Silverplate mp's of the Super 64's.
It also removes rust under coverplates and gives a fantastic shine which, when buffed, helps prevent any further rusting or build-up.

CX-12's don't require much of this at all. I confess I've occasionally polished up their shells with MAAS, wondering if it might help strengthen them since too many people mention how 'fragile' they supposedly are although that is not my personal experience.

As with most others here who believe in 'only water' for the slides - especially while playing, those're my thoughts as well.

scotty

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2020, 12:47:08 PM »
I am pretty sure I have shared this story before, forgive any redundancy.
It was SPAH, probably 5 or 6 years ago, a slow day, and the Japanese representative was going through the display harps in our glass case, liberally applying slide oil.
I finally spoke up, saying, "What are you doing, we don't do that", as I had been advised by Daron that not only did we not sell it, we don't use it unless we have to.
The Japanese contingent convened, and when they returned, they told me, "Is necessary for proper function".
Well, shut mah mouth. I am not going to tell the parent company reps what to do.
Since then, I have loosed up (good Lord) on my use of the juice.

Offline Paulc

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2020, 12:47:43 PM »
What about WD40? It is supposed to have many good properties and work on anything. 😂😂😂
One day I’ll be able to bend a note 😀

Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2020, 12:48:14 PM »
What about WD40? It is supposed to have many good properties and work on anything. 😂😂😂
Makes a great embalming fluid.

Offline SlimHeilpern

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2020, 01:05:17 PM »
I'm convinced that most if not all the manufacturers use a small amount of lubricant on the slide before shipping. I came to this conclusion after finding that adding a bit of lube is the only way I've found (excluding CX12s, which do fine without it) to keep from having to add a drop water to the slide each time I pick up the axe after about 3 days have passed following cleaning. Following a thorough cleaning (I scrub with a soap/vinegar/water mix, mostly water) and light sanding, I add an extremely thin layer of lubricant and I can go for a couple of weeks or more without having to add a drop of water to the end of the slide to free it up before playing.

I've recently found that petroleum jelly (recommended by Brendan Power) seems to last longer than Astroglide, and have yet to try Vern's suggestion of floor wax (will try that next, although I'm expecting it to be a bit smellier).

I've yet to notice any side effects or build up, but then again, I use _very_ little of the stuff and only apply it after a thorough cleaning.

- Slim
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Offline BeauKim

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2020, 04:54:37 PM »
I'm convinced that most if not all the manufacturers use a small amount of lubricant on the slide before shipping. I came to this conclusion after finding that adding a bit of lube is the only way I've found (excluding CX12s, which do fine without it) to keep from having to add a drop water to the slide each time I pick up the axe after about 3 days have passed following cleaning. Following a thorough cleaning (I scrub with a soap/vinegar/water mix, mostly water) and light sanding, I add an extremely thin layer of lubricant and I can go for a couple of weeks or more without having to add a drop of water to the end of the slide to free it up before playing.

I've recently found that petroleum jelly (recommended by Brendan Power) seems to last longer than Astroglide, and have yet to try Vern's suggestion of floor wax (will try that next, although I'm expecting it to be a bit smellier).

I've yet to notice any side effects or build up, but then again, I use _very_ little of the stuff and only apply it after a thorough cleaning.

- Slim

That reminds me that trombone players usually use slide grease or a combination of grease and an oil PLUS a few sprays of water.  Besides having a good slide alignment for the best action, they also use a very thin layer of slide grease.  The water beads up on the stocking of the slide and it helps facilitate fast movement.  The water will wash away the grease faster as they will need to spray more the longer they play.  Trumpet players use different viscosities of oil for their valves.  All of these things help KEEP the slides/valves from sticking because of saliva deposites AND tighten the already tight tolerances between the inner slide/valves and the outer slide/valve casing.  When things get stuck and it's not out of alignment, it's because the moving parts got dirty and clogged up or the lubricants washed away and now it is basically metal on metal scraping away the outer coatings.

A chromatic's slide has much less movement but I personally think a small amount of lubricant is fine.  I know others are against it and that is fine.  As long as you don't get the harmonica super hot and overnighted the mouthpiece, it should help preserve the life of the slide. 

 

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2020, 05:20:13 PM »
Yeah, Slim,
Especially the Herings. (come to think of it, they actually smell like herrings when you take them out of the box) That's some nasty smelling oil. I always figured, if you were going to slop it up with oil, at least use something that smells and maybe even tastes good. Coconut oil does that. ;D

Offline Ed McCullough

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2020, 08:15:25 PM »
I get along with just water. I hold the harmonica with the button end up and trickle a tiny stream of water onto spot where the button end of the slide goes into the harmonica.   I push the button quickly as water is running. Water going through the harmonica along the slide carries out old dried saliva. 
- I usually do this before playing and maybe after playing. If I am nowhere near running water when I want to play, I might dribble some water from a water bottle. (Common tap water stored in a pint vinegar bottle is what I keep in my car and backpack) over the slide.  This is also a good time to wipe the mouthpiece and my mouth with a clean, wet finger, cloth or napkin.

I believe WD40's purpose in life is to loosen corrosion. Once corrosion is loosened, sloshing with some more WD40 can remove corrosion particles from the area you have cleaned.
- I do not believe WD40 is a lubricant. WD40 might lubricate surfaces until it evaporates. It evaporates within minutes or seconds.

Offline Grizzly

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2020, 08:59:00 PM »
Trombone slides of course have much more surface to lubricate than a harmonica slide. I don't know whether any of them use this now, but a standard trombone slide lubricant used to be Pond's cold cream and a spritz of water.

Tom
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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2020, 11:38:33 AM »
According to Norm Larson, the guy who created the stuff, the WD stands for “water Displacement.” The solvent is a thinner/carrier for a substance that, especially when cured is not exactly a lubricant. It was designed to replace creosote for shipping metal items. I do not believe it ended up doing that.
An old boss of mine had me use it on Painted apartment doors. Spray it on the sun exposed oxidized paint, quick wipe, looks like new. Hardens in a day. That was oil based paint. I no longer have use of it.
 Unlike silicon lubricant, which is the slipperiest stuff I know, there is no food grade WD40.

Best regards,
Ed

Offline Danny G

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2020, 01:21:02 PM »
Quote
Especially the Herings. (come to think of it, they actually smell like herrings when you take them out of the box) That's some nasty smelling oil. I always figured, if you were going to slop it up with oil, at least use something that smells and maybe even tastes good. Coconut oil does that

When I would get a shipment of Herring harmonicas the boxes had the same smell as the harmonicas only stronger.

Offline smojoe

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2020, 01:40:02 PM »
1.. According to my daughter, who works for a huge salvage & shipping co., the oil sprayed into the ships from S. America & Asia, are insecticides and anti-mold agents.
 
2.. I don't understand the klepto against lubricants. Moving parts need them. A human is (basically) a steam engine. They operate at a pressure that I estimate at 4.4 lb. over ambient. Which is low. The temp is certainly not at steam level, but it is higher than ambient. Most of the time. Warm water vapor. This warm wet liquid will 'cut' the lubricant off of moving parts given the proper amount of time.

3.. Try operating any moving parts without lubricant.

4.. Water is actually THE universal solvent. Given enough time it will actiually dissolve granite.
 
5.. I recently saw a commercial that touted as how their product was made of German stainless steel. Here's a secret. Stainless depends on the amalgum number affixed TO it. A less noble steel from Germany won't be better than a more noble steel from..say..Zamboanga. It will actually be worse.

I have used: Noxema, Ponds, baby oil, coconut oil, whale oil, sewing machine oil, Vick's Vapom Rub, baby lotion, Lubriderm, etc. Just don't slather it on as if you were buttering an English muffin or pouring maple syrup on waffles.

Conclusion? The bcs (best case scenario) is to have a TIGHT molecular plating to parts. Then..keep the parts cleaned and flushed..AND lubed.

smokey-joe (Mars machine manufacturing & metalurgy). Aka..the 4M company.  lolol.
   

Offline SlimHeilpern

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2020, 01:56:48 PM »
...
2.. I don't understand the klepto against lubricants.
...

I think this may have originated from harmonica techs complaining about all the gunk build up in the harmonicas that are sent to them for repair.

Obviously, extreme moderation is called for :-).

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Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2020, 04:07:31 PM »
I have worked on harmonicas with too much of the wrong stuff applied.
My position is that you should be free to put whatever you like on your harmonica, as long as you are willing to clean them yourself.
I just did a couple of bebop retunes for the great Michael Peloquin, his harps were super clean. That is always welcomed but seldom expected.

Offline Scotty

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2020, 04:37:48 PM »
Michael is a saxophone player (a great one) - and an extremely good harmonica player (of several kinds). I would somehow just
know that his instruments would be perfection - having gotten to know him a wee bit from SPAH. :)

scotty

Offline beads

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2022, 05:05:51 PM »
Rockin Ron has Suzuki slide oil on sale with free shipping. I just ordered a bottle.
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Offline Old Age

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2022, 05:20:16 PM »
I'm guessing it must qualify as "food grade" but other than that, what's slide oil made out of that makes it so special? I've used food grade silicone a lot, and it worked great, but never lasted very long.

Does he have samples? (you know, like those little "pillow" packs of ointment and stuff) If I were to try the stuff and were to be convinced that it was "the bomb," I'd be more likely to spring for a bottle.  How much does it cost anyway? (I'm assuming it's expensive). If it ain't, disregard everything I just wrote. ;D

Offline beads

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2022, 06:21:35 PM »
https://rockinronsmusic.com/products/suzuki-slide-oil-includes-free-usa-shipping

That's all I know, can't answer your other questions.
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Offline SlimHeilpern

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2022, 06:25:11 PM »
No idea what's in it, but I've been using it (very sparingly) lately and I'm quite happy with it. That one bottle will last a very long time.

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Offline HUGO

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2022, 06:58:46 PM »
You don't have to keep taking the mouthpieces off. Take a shallow tray that will hold a chromo HOLES DOWN in only enough water to come up to the seam where the mouthpiece touches the over-bridger piece (called a u-channel). In cases where the slide is imbedded IN the mouthpiece, perhaps ONE MM more. Work the slide back and forth a dozen times, wash out the saliva, and pat the chromo into a tea towel with holes DOWN.

In between times you can use an eye dropper bottle of oil and touch the slide every few holes depositing a TEEEEENSIE bit at a time. This will last till the next tray wash. I have dozens of small plastic bottles around here. They are from the wife's eye drops, my drops when I had eye surgery, and also from the test chemicals for swimming pools. I take them to the conventions and give them away.

s.j.

Encouraged by this forum to play my Chroms with ever more regularity, I'm now experiencing some of the issues that come with the territory i.e. sticking slide.

  Using S.J.s' cleaning method here restored a 1664 Chrom of mine with that exact issue to operating condition. Following up with a swabbing of the holes in the Mouthpiece (Shout out to Scotty), it's now ready to return to service. 

 Avoiding disassembly, etc. was quite a boon to me, a mechanically declined Harmonicist. For that reason it sat in it's case with a sticky note that read: "Slide sticks, waiting for someone to invent a CX14."

- HUGO
« Last Edit: July 16, 2022, 07:09:05 PM by HUGO »

Offline beads

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2022, 03:13:26 PM »
Slim is right. This bottle will last me the rest of my life. I put a test drop on a piece of paper first to see how fast it came out. That drop looked like more than I wanted, so I just touched the tip of the bottle to the front and back of the exposed part of the slide (no disassembly) and lightly squeezed so a drop would START to appear. Then I removed the bottle and stopped squeezing. There was just enough oil on the slide to be visible. Then I worked the slide for a bit and then wiped the exposed part off with a tissue. Immediately noticed the slide moving smoother. Did this on my Suzuki and Easttop. My Discovery has a plastic mouthpiece so I didn't try it there. I think capillary action will move the oil further down the slide, but probably the button end is all that needs lubed because of the unintentional sideways torque I put on the slide there. That shouldn't be a problem at the bass end.
The instructions said the oil can change color if exposed to direct sunlight for too long. Mine stays in a desk drawer. I don't know the viscosity, but it is very, very light weight oil.
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Offline blowharp

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2022, 06:05:40 PM »
I find most folks don't know how to properly apply it if used. You only put a tiny bit of oil on you index finger and thumb and rub it along the top and bottom edge of the slide, not across the face. 

A more lasting method is to place the slide in a flat jaw vise. I glued hobby foam sheets to mine to prevent marring the slide. Use a sanding block to round the top and bottom of the slide and a enough to just break the edge along both ends. You don't have to make it noticeably round. Just break the edge.

The sanding block or sanding sponge can be used across the body too. I start with a 330 grit and move up to 600 grit. Clean afterward. You'll never need to lube your slip and slide again.

When chromatics come in for servicing I retool all the slide assemblies and flat sand the comb as the first step. It's not an extra service I charge.

Mike
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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2022, 03:22:35 PM »
Not for nothin’, but:

I’ve gotten instruments from, or back from builders and techs. I never found anything in them. They were immaculate, and innocent of oil, wax, food spray, etc.

I think my scx harps long ago came with a little something, but that got gone with the first good cleaning.

Once flattened, rough spots smoothed, springs set, water seems to do it, the Leroy or two down the back of the slide mouthpiece down, and worked a bit. When that doesn’t work, cleaning time.

Except the infernal springs on my super 64Xs. There’s a topic!

Best regards,
Ed

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #57 on: August 07, 2022, 04:03:50 PM »
Don't know about now, but the worst one used to be Hering. I always thought they shouldda been called "Herring," cuz they smelled like fish oil or something.

Offline smojoe

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2022, 06:40:00 PM »
See my post #45. Apparently not everyone reads past posts. And Blowharp is correct. Breaking the edges (iow, taking the razor sharp edges off of slides EDGES) works wonders. Why? beCAUSE the u-channel is a punched part and the inside corners are slightly rounded. If the dies were so close as to make a perfectly square corner, the metal would suffer molecular weakness.
The sharp edges of the slide would like to cut into the rounded insides of the u-channel. Harmonicas allow for this. Ergo..loose enough fit.

Secondly, my post 45 explains why harmonicas can smell strange.

smo-joe

Offline beads

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Re: Slide oil
« Reply #59 on: August 26, 2022, 04:18:07 PM »
The Suzuki oil on my Suzuki and Easttop has worked very well. To the point of not liking the slide on my Discovery. Today I disassembled the Discovery slide, cleaned with water, and noticed some improvement, but still not as smooth as the Suzuki or Easttop. I figured that since the Suzuki and Easttop had plastic combs then the oil was probably ok with plastic parts. So I put just half a drop on each side of the button end of the Discovery, worked it a bit, and wiped off the exposed part of the slide. Bingo. Liking the results. I think that the torque from the spring causes more friction at that point of the slide, plus any sideways torque from the way I press the button. It seems to me that just a bit at that one end works wonders. I see no reason to lube the rest of the slide. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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