Author Topic: Embouchure Question  (Read 5045 times)

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Offline SlideMeister

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2020, 01:26:50 PM »
Thank you Mr Parker! You rock! 8)

Offline zvigrunb

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2020, 12:57:47 PM »
Tzvi said:
"Anyway, taste is taste as in any art.
Though I may surprise you with some of his pieces... If of course you'd be interested"


Give it a shot! :)

Gladly!
Can't see where to upload videos...
What did I miss?
"Live long and prosper",
Tzvika

Offline SlideMeister

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2020, 02:20:42 PM »
Just put the youtube the URL in your post like this:
https://www.youtube.com/blah-blah-whateveroiweuf9eufheirfeif
and it oughtta fly

Offline zvigrunb

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2020, 01:45:18 AM »
Just put the youtube the URL in your post like this:
https://www.youtube.com/blah-blah-whateveroiweuf9eufheirfeif
and it oughtta fly

Okay then...

Check these out.
Would truly like to know what you think of them.
( I'm sure you're familiar with some if not all )







These MAY have some of the sounds you don't like, but I feel they are well in context
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Of course there's much more... But seems this is enough for now  :)

Although all are covers besides Genevieve waltz beign his own,
to me he had the sweetest tone (When he wanted to :))
and used the instrument to its maximum.








« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 01:55:35 AM by zvigrunb »
"Live long and prosper",
Tzvika

Offline Scotty

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2020, 12:55:37 PM »
Tzvi - You haven't searched the archives here, have you? :) Larry Adler (as well as his brother Jerry - who was likewise a famed
chromatic harmonica player who headlined our SPAH conferences), have both been discussed at length here, off and on. There
is only so much discussion one can devote to a particular player, no matter who it is. Toots is covered whenever someone new
discovers him, as is Stevie, and so on. Some love Larry Adler's playing, some dislike watching him but I believe all admit he was
a master at his craft whether they like his 'style' of playing or not. He was also probably the most well-known since he was in 'the Movies' probably more than any other chromatic player. Personally, I am not a 'huge' fan, but absolutely do give him his due.
Among my favourite videos is of him later on in life playing with both Itzhak Perlman and Oleta Adams. Fun, sweet and delicious.

scotty

Offline zvigrunb

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2020, 03:12:04 PM »
Tzvi - You haven't searched the archives here, have you? :) Larry Adler (as well as his brother Jerry - who was likewise a famed
chromatic harmonica player who headlined our SPAH conferences), have both been discussed at length here, off and on. There
is only so much discussion one can devote to a particular player, no matter who it is. Toots is covered whenever someone new
discovers him, as is Stevie, and so on. Some love Larry Adler's playing, some dislike watching him but I believe all admit he was
a master at his craft whether they like his 'style' of playing or not. He was also probably the most well-known since he was in 'the Movies' probably more than any other chromatic player. Personally, I am not a 'huge' fan, but absolutely do give him his due.
Among my favourite videos is of him later on in life playing with both Itzhak Perlman and Oleta Adams. Fun, sweet and delicious.

scotty

Oh, I did go through some but it's alot of ground to cover and one has only so much time :)

Anyway, these are just some samples for Age,
so I accepted the challenge :)

By the way, I've noticed there is a search option,
but the results are dead quotes. Not active links to enter the original posts.
"Live long and prosper",
Tzvika

Offline SlideMeister

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2020, 03:24:57 PM »
I guess I'm just incorrigible! I STILL hate him!  ;D  And oh yea, the fourth link ("The entertainer") is a dead one.

Like I said, he hits all the holes like a champ, but he just loses me after that. :P

Oh well, :-[

Arthur J.

Offline Scotty

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2020, 04:38:53 PM »
Tzvi - You haven't searched the archives here, have you? :) Larry Adler (as well as his brother Jerry - who was likewise a famed
chromatic harmonica player who headlined our SPAH conferences), have both been discussed at length here, off and on. There
is only so much discussion one can devote to a particular player, no matter who it is. Toots is covered whenever someone new
discovers him, as is Stevie, and so on. Some love Larry Adler's playing, some dislike watching him but I believe all admit he was
a master at his craft whether they like his 'style' of playing or not. He was also probably the most well-known since he was in 'the Movies' probably more than any other chromatic player. Personally, I am not a 'huge' fan, but absolutely do give him his due.
Among my favourite videos is of him later on in life playing with both Itzhak Perlman and Oleta Adams. Fun, sweet and delicious.

scotty

Oh, I did go through some but it's alot of ground to cover and one has only so much time :)

Anyway, these are just some samples for Age,
so I accepted the challenge :)

By the way, I've noticed there is a search option,
but the results are dead quotes. Not active links to enter the original posts.

No, not all. You might have hit some where we had a search engine failure (no one's fault and fixing it would be extremely cost
prohibitive given that SlideMeister IS, basically, Age's own personal blog which grew into this fantastic chromatic international site which he manages pretty much on his own). Most often, we can easily access old posts and even old threads going back years. Some
of the older links were lost, however. Age did ask anyone who wanted to, to repost their links. Perhaps some didn't?

scotty

Offline SlideMeister

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2020, 08:48:17 PM »
Yeah, the search engine on this software leaves something to be desired ::) I have no doubt that EVERYTHING is here somewhere, it doesn't always just pop up like I wish it did. :P

Offline zvigrunb

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2020, 02:02:19 AM »
Tzvi - You haven't searched the archives here, have you? :) Larry Adler (as well as his brother Jerry - who was likewise a famed
chromatic harmonica player who headlined our SPAH conferences), have both been discussed at length here, off and on. There
is only so much discussion one can devote to a particular player, no matter who it is. Toots is covered whenever someone new
discovers him, as is Stevie, and so on. Some love Larry Adler's playing, some dislike watching him but I believe all admit he was
a master at his craft whether they like his 'style' of playing or not. He was also probably the most well-known since he was in 'the Movies' probably more than any other chromatic player. Personally, I am not a 'huge' fan, but absolutely do give him his due.
Among my favourite videos is of him later on in life playing with both Itzhak Perlman and Oleta Adams. Fun, sweet and delicious.

scotty

Oh, I did go through some but it's alot of ground to cover and one has only so much time :)

Anyway, these are just some samples for Age,
so I accepted the challenge :)

By the way, I've noticed there is a search option,
but the results are dead quotes. Not active links to enter the original posts.

No, not all. You might have hit some where we had a search engine failure (no one's fault and fixing it would be extremely cost
prohibitive given that SlideMeister IS, basically, Age's own personal blog which grew into this fantastic chromatic international site which he manages pretty much on his own). Most often, we can easily access old posts and even old threads going back years. Some
of the older links were lost, however. Age did ask anyone who wanted to, to repost their links. Perhaps some didn't?

scotty

Wow!! so, Age... you're actually the founder... the ELDER of the tribe... the main man :)
Yes, this site is truly impressive, informative and extremely enjoyable thanks to the all the friends here!
Software features, at times, may be overrated... good people never are.
That's what it's all about at the end of the day, right? - The community, people interacting together, sharing, talking...
"Live long and prosper",
Tzvika

Offline zvigrunb

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2020, 02:04:47 AM »
Yeah, the search engine on this software leaves something to be desired ::) I have no doubt that EVERYTHING is here somewhere, it doesn't always just pop up like I wish it did. :P

Age, after reading Scottys post I looked around a bit..."simple machines" are a genereic platform for forum creation and have apparently a bug tracker area...
It seems they will fix or improve stuff free of cost especailly if it's not a special customizing request, and all users can benifit from it.

Ummm.... i assume this has been tried in the past?
Or maybe not worth the bother?
"Live long and prosper",
Tzvika

Offline SlideMeister

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2020, 12:56:22 PM »
Yeah, I even pay a guy (and he ain't cheap) to troubleshoot now and then, and this is pretty much, as good as it gets, till some improvement is made in the software. I've been exploring the idea of having this forum "migrated" to another platform, but from what I understand that besides the "learning curve" for the membership, they ALL have bugs. So, I guess it is what it is. :P

@ge ><((((º>

Offline SlideMeister

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2020, 01:01:32 PM »
Software features, at times, may be overrated... good people never are

"Features" accumulate with the number of your posts. (unless you cheat by becoming a supporter  ;))



@ge ><((((º>

Offline RichChrome

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2020, 09:38:20 PM »
The is a 1938 recording of Larry Adler and Django Reinhardt playing "I Got Rhythm" this is very fast number extremely difficult to play and Adler plays parts of the melody line using chords. It's worth a listen on YouTube.

Offline Bernie9

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2020, 07:58:33 AM »
Remarkable speed with a good measure of spontaneity.

Offline zvigrunb

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2021, 05:47:12 PM »
A criticism of Larry Adler's style of playing was that he would use chords that were musically incorrect, as compared to Tommy Reilly who often used double notes and chords, but only where they fitted musically.

Hi Lone,
I've hear this in other places as well.
Still, whatever he played sounded amazing and very unique!!
Criticism may also be born out of jealousy  :)

Fact is nobody today sounds even close to Adlers style.
Or better said - I haven't seen any.

IMHO
I take it back...
after  recently getting familiar with players as Tommy Morgan and Tommy Reilly I see how ignorant I was :)

Still love L.A though ;)
"Live long and prosper",
Tzvika

Offline RichChrome

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2021, 10:27:05 PM »
Sometimes it's worth recording your playing, I've found that a song played back will usually tell you whether your improvisation either sounds pretty good or it doesn't. I don't think it's a question of right or wrong or what the expectation of others might be. I've also found that sometimes certain improvisation phrases sound really good when I'm playing but not so good when I listen to the playback, but often fixed with a minor change.  We're all on this musical journey, just enjoy it and know that we're all getting to play a little better every day.   

Offline SlideMeister

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2021, 10:54:28 PM »
RichChrome said:
"We're all on this musical journey, just enjoy it and know that we're all getting to play a little better every day."

Yeah, and don't be afraid of mistakes, cuz without'em, you'll never get any better. (that's the law)

Offline Harpinfool

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2021, 11:21:15 AM »
So how about this one where he doesn't use all of his 'tricks', is playing with a classically-trained musician, recording equipment is updated and the 2 of them develop a musical rapport that is usually called the 'zone'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrdauSqH_EI

Offline Bernie9

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2021, 12:23:28 PM »
Playing the tonic key you can usually get away with a lot of double holes on the blow notes. But, to be fair, there are still gunna be a few draw notes are going to require a tighter (single hole attack) to avoid that sound that makes to think of "lemon AND milk in your tea."  :'(

AJ

I just re-read this old post from you, and you hit the nail on the head.  Ha ha, but then you know that.

Offline SlideMeister

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #50 on: November 25, 2021, 11:13:50 PM »
To add to it (just cuz Bernie  dug it up again  ;D)

Over the years, I've come to know some really "good" players who can do technical stuff and jazz licks, I could only dream about, ::) BUT their personal "acceptance" of sloppy playing somehow, over the years, has become their actual "ignorance" of their sloppiness. (it's like they actually quit hearing them) When we get used to farkles, we begin to ignore them and that's where it gets dangerous. Once clams/farkles are ignored, they become normal, and when that happens, we'll probably never get rid of them. :( That's sad, because while these players continue to excel in the stuff that makes them good, their indifference to "embouchure" and other basics that affect something as simple as hitting the right note, IMO, brings them all the way down to "my level" of musicality, and that's even sadder. ;)

Hey, "clams" & "farkles" are gunna happen. We need'em, just like pain; mistakes says something is wrong. It's what we do with them makes the difference. When we blow a "klinker," it shouldn't stop us, but it should never go ignored! If we ignore it; the next one will be easier to ignore. This will result in a perpetual sloppy player. We don't want that. :)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 11:40:44 PM by A.J. Fedor »

Offline smojoe

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2021, 11:25:33 PM »
Depends on the tune. If you do 'The Breeze and I', you don't want to hit single notes. Too boring. It should be played with chording. OR flourishes. If not you would need a couple other musicians backing you.
'Caravan'? Ok, you COULD do it in the minor, but if you use a major AS a minor you have an opportunity for flourishes. Amazing runs that don't work IN the minor because of dissonance.
Ok, HERE is where changing to another keyed chromo may be desirable. Depending on what key(s) the band can handle.

s.j. cellophane

Offline zvigrunb

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2021, 03:50:02 PM »
So how about this one where he doesn't use all of his 'tricks', is playing with a classically-trained musician, recording equipment is updated and the 2 of them develop a musical rapport that is usually called the 'zone'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrdauSqH_EI

Yup... and cherry on top...
He just HAD to finish with that "uWha wha whaaa"..
Love it! :)
"Live long and prosper",
Tzvika

Offline zvigrunb

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2021, 04:02:24 PM »
Regarding A.J.s post above on sloppyness.
Every word in stone.

And I get quite angry at myself when I lose focus that leads to note leakage where I don't want it. Happens with double stops too. For example Lotsa times I want to inhale 6+7 but accidentally drag in a bit of 8, so instead of getting that nice harmony I get something that sounds more like in a horror movie when the bad guy's holding the knife :)
"Live long and prosper",
Tzvika

Offline John Broecker

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2022, 01:03:44 AM »
Getting back to Bernie9's original post,
he discussed changing a harmonica
player's embouchure (mouth shape)
to perform overtones, his word, for
triads (3 simultaneous reeds sounded)
or diads (2 simultaneous reeds).

In the science of acoustics, every tone
has simultaneous parts (overtones)
that are automatically stacked, producing
a single tone.

If we listen to a single note of a played
piano wire, we might hear the root note
(fundamental pitch), plus a few of the
root note's overtones.

The same effect of building a tone with it's
parts, happens on all sounds produced,
including on harmonicas.

But the small size of the harmonica reeds
makes audio perception of partials more
difficult on harmonicas. The effect may be
more audible on bass harmonicas.

Here's the harmonic series of pitches to
build a tone, on the tone C, from lowest
(root) to fourth partial.  The other partials
not shown here, are weaker, and may be
inaudible to most healthy human ears):

C (2 octaves higher from the root)
G (a fifth higher from the octave)
C (an octave higher)
C (lowest: root pitch)

The partials make the root pitch fuller,
stronger. The concept is audible on
octave-tuned harmonicas.

Best Regards, Stay Healthy

JB





« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 01:28:14 AM by John Broecker »
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Offline Gnarly He Man

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2022, 08:40:48 AM »
Allow me to mention:
Overtones are more pronounced with Just Intonation.
Not that I am suggesting that you tune your chromatic to Just.

Offline SlideMeister

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Re: Embouchure Question
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2022, 11:19:58 AM »
I've always noticed a lot more (higher register) overtones when I use a tongue block than a pucker.