Author Topic: Orchestra tuned  (Read 4140 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,222
  • Chroma means color
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2021, 06:25:44 PM »
Should be done this week!

Offline SlideMeister

  • Owner/Administrator
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 27,003
  • A.J. Fedor ><((((º>
    • A.J.'s mini-site
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2021, 06:29:34 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline SlideMeister

  • Owner/Administrator
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 27,003
  • A.J. Fedor ><((((º>
    • A.J.'s mini-site
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2021, 09:18:20 PM »
I'm a little guy, and as far as I know, of EVERY picture I ever took with all other harmonica players (with the exception of Atsuko (who's about fourteen inches tall) and Michal Adler, I'm always the short one! Little guy with little hands, that's me. It means a 12 holer is what I find to be the most comfortable.

My daughter just gave me this candid she took of me when she was behind me at a traffic light. Remember when I said I was short? Well, here's me on my Gold Wing before I got smart and lowered the whole bike almost two inches so my feet could actually touch the ground instead of just my toes. Check out my feet.  ;D

Offline Grizzly

  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,334
  • aka Tom
    • Transcriptions
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2021, 09:56:59 PM »
I'm not short, just height challenged. Or maybe under-tall.

Tom
working on my second 10,000!

Offline wolfman

  • HELPER
  • MasterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,513
  • If you have no "slick", you stick.
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2021, 01:00:43 PM »
 Maybe just like me Grizz,short on one end. ;D

    Roman

Offline Wendellfiddler

  • Chrome-Meister
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,545
    • Gypsy Wranglers
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #65 on: October 14, 2021, 02:34:10 PM »
I often use a Saxony and a Symphony 48 that are orchestra tuned.  I like them a lot.  Very convenient and the stainless steel reeds seem to work well with the extra weight required to get that tuning in the shorter slots a 12 hole has vs the longer slots in a regular 56.

doug tanner
Laissez Les Bon Temps Rollez

Offline SlideMeister

  • Owner/Administrator
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 27,003
  • A.J. Fedor ><((((º>
    • A.J.'s mini-site
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #66 on: October 14, 2021, 02:58:12 PM »
Good to hear from you Douglas! I'm just happen to listening to San Tropes Cowboy ;D ;D

Offline Wendellfiddler

  • Chrome-Meister
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,545
    • Gypsy Wranglers
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #67 on: October 14, 2021, 06:46:23 PM »
haha!   hope you like it .....  :)

dt
Laissez Les Bon Temps Rollez

Offline Wendellfiddler

  • Chrome-Meister
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,545
    • Gypsy Wranglers
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #68 on: October 18, 2021, 06:02:16 PM »
I'm a little guy, and as far as I know, of EVERY picture I ever took with all other harmonica players (with the exception of Atsuko (who's about fourteen inches tall) and Michal Adler, I'm always the short one! Little guy with little hands, that's me. It means a 12 holer is what I find to be the most comfortable.

My daughter just gave me this candid she took of me when she was behind me at a traffic light. Remember when I said I was short? Well, here's me on my Gold Wing before I got smart and lowered the whole bike almost two inches so my feet could actually touch the ground instead of just my toes. Check out my feet.  ;D

haha.  what was it Lincoln said "the proper length of legs is long enough to touch the ground" or something to that effect.  I guess in this case it wasn't the case.  I can relate.  When I rode I had to ride Yamahas and Triumphs as I couldn't touch the ground on bigger bikes, but hey, lowering the bike - good idea......   Now since I've lost a couple inches in height that I really couldn't spare how can I lower the hooks that hold my pots and pans that hang from the joists above?   hook lengtheners?

doug tanner
Laissez Les Bon Temps Rollez

Offline SlideMeister

  • Owner/Administrator
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 27,003
  • A.J. Fedor ><((((º>
    • A.J.'s mini-site
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2021, 07:57:17 PM »
Just got that orchestra tuned SCX in the mail from Gnarley. Great job! I'm impressed!  Sounds like it came from the factory tuned that way. Super duper! ;D
Now all I gotta do is steal the wood covers off of something else and I'm ready to rock! ;D

Online Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,222
  • Chroma means color
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2021, 09:26:54 PM »
Another satisfied customer—and the price was right!
Thanks for maintaining the best little Chromatic Oasis online.

Offline Grizzly

  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,334
  • aka Tom
    • Transcriptions
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #71 on: October 19, 2021, 11:29:27 AM »
"Now since I've lost a couple inches in height that I really couldn't spare how can I lower the hooks that hold my pots and pans that hang from the joists above?" (Doug Tanner)

Actually, diminished height would come from the compression of the discs in the spine, not the legs themselves, so while lowering the hooks in your kitchen would help, Age's lowering his bike any further wouldn't gain him anything. His legs were short to begin with. (I'm not overly tall, either.)

Tom
working on my second 10,000!

Offline gvelasco

  • Chrome-Minator
  • ***
  • Posts: 579
  • Wannabe
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #72 on: October 19, 2021, 12:02:12 PM »
Duh!  Color me dumb!
I wouldn't be so hard on myself. There's clearly room for interpretation.
Quote
...I guess I thought it was an altered tuning of the reeds, but it turns out it's more like a different "section" of notes on the harp.  Is that somewhere in the ballpark?
Yes, but more people will understand if you say it's a different "tuning" or maybe even "layout." Tuning refers to how notes are assigned to holes and layout refers to how the reeds are arranged in the holes, if that makes any sense.
Quote
In any case, if a 14-hole qualifies as an orchestra tuned instrument, then my Suzuki Sirius 56 (14-hole) qualifies.  Since I play that harmonica more than any of my others, I think that makes orchestra tuning my "go to" instrument. I must say I find it a bit confusing to consider adding a couple of holes at the bass end converts my harp to a different tuning!  It just feels like a regular harp in C with more notes at the bottom. Whatever, I'm all in for orchestra tuning if that's what I've stumbled upon that I happen to like!! ::)
Yes. Your Sirius 56 counts as an "orchestra tuned" harmonica, not because it has 14 holes, but because of the notes in those extra notes on the bottom. Orchestra tuning really refers to your harmonica having the same compass, or range of notes, as a violin. This allows you to play parts written for a violin. The compass (range of notes) of a "standard" 12 hole chromatic harmonica in C is from middle C to D four octaves higher and skips over the highest C#. The compass of a violin is from G below middle C to about E four octaves higher and obviously doesn't skip the C#. So, a standard 12 hole chromatic cannot play the lowest notes that a violin can. Your Sirius 56 goes from the G below middle C to the D four octaves higher, so you can hit those lowest violin notes and *almost* reach the highest ones.

If you want to get REALLY PICKY about orchestra tuning, you can say that the harmonica shouldn't skip that high C# in favor of the D. The Violin Scale Tombo Band Chromatic (That's the actual name.) is a valveless chromatic in C that starts on a G like your Sirius 56, but doesn't skip the C#. Tombo calls this a "violin scale" harmonica. Some people might refer to this as a "true" orchestra tuning. Some people might roll their eyes at this definition. ;-)

The reason 14 holers qualify is that MOST 14 hole chromatics are orchestra tuned, but this is not a law. It is possible to tune a 14 holer starting on a C, or any other note, and add the two "extra" notes at the top. This could definitely make sense for "keyed" harmonicas in lower keys.

It's also possible to make an "orchestra tuned" 12 hole harmonica by just not having the highest notes, but again you'd be missing out on the highest notes that a violin can cover so...

Personally, I think the best definition of an orchestra tuned harmonica is one that has approximately the same compass as a violin so that it can, in theory, play music written for violin.
-=Gabriel=-

Offline gvelasco

  • Chrome-Minator
  • ***
  • Posts: 579
  • Wannabe
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2021, 12:03:42 PM »
I have a 14 hole Chrometta and a Violin Scale Tombo Band Chromatic. I know there are some "haters" of both of those here, but I really enjoy playing both of those. :-)
-=Gabriel=-

Offline SlideMeister

  • Owner/Administrator
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 27,003
  • A.J. Fedor ><((((º>
    • A.J.'s mini-site
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #74 on: October 19, 2021, 02:13:29 PM »
Age's lowering his bike any further wouldn't gain him anything. His legs were short to begin with.

Well, the proof is in the pudding. Check the feet. :)


Offline Grizzly

  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,334
  • aka Tom
    • Transcriptions
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #75 on: October 19, 2021, 03:43:35 PM »
Yeah, but you didn't grow longer legs, you grew a shorter bike. If you could reach the ground 30 years ago before you modified it, I'll eat my hat. ;D

Tom
working on my second 10,000!

Offline brorat

  • PRESIDENT'S CLUB
  • Chrome-Meister
  • *
  • Posts: 1,938
  • Member
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #76 on: October 19, 2021, 05:16:54 PM »
Will you guys please give Age a break😱😱??
He’s a good guy, and he needs some love!!
“Just here to harp on chromatics!”

Offline Grizzly

  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,334
  • aka Tom
    • Transcriptions
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #77 on: October 19, 2021, 06:13:11 PM »
My MIL sez, "We tease ya cuz we love ya."

Tom
working on my second 10,000!

Offline SlideMeister

  • Owner/Administrator
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 27,003
  • A.J. Fedor ><((((º>
    • A.J.'s mini-site
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #78 on: October 19, 2021, 08:48:36 PM »
Yer right; I wuz always a shrimp :P I rode that bike like that for over a year before getting smart and getting my butt a little closer to the earth. 

Offline Danny G

  • Happiness is a New Harmonica
  • THE PARTY GUY
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 5,676
  • Danny G
    • New Harmonica
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #79 on: October 20, 2021, 10:39:06 AM »
Nothin' wrong with short legs, you were just built for comfort, not for speed.

LOL .....
https://youtu.be/8bfyS-S-IJs?t=45
« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 08:30:30 PM by Danny G »

Offline Wendellfiddler

  • Chrome-Meister
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,545
    • Gypsy Wranglers
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #80 on: October 20, 2021, 11:55:46 AM »
(in response to one of the earlier comments about the definition of OT)  I think it might have been Seydel that started the term "orchestra tuning".  We used to call it Meisterklasse tuning because the 14 hole MK was tuned that way and at the time I believe it was the only factory tuned chromatic with that tuning.

doug t
Laissez Les Bon Temps Rollez

Offline Wendellfiddler

  • Chrome-Meister
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,545
    • Gypsy Wranglers
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #81 on: October 20, 2021, 12:01:19 PM »
Just got that orchestra tuned SCX in the mail from Gnarley. Great job! I'm impressed!  Sounds like it came from the factory tuned that way. Super duper! ;D
Now all I gotta do is steal the wood covers off of something else and I'm ready to rock! ;D

Gary, just wondering how you did this?  Did you start with a G?  Did you do any reed transplants or did you do it entirely with weights and mirrors?  I once built one from a G CX-12 but I did reed transplants from junk 270's to get the lower tuned reeds.

doug t
Laissez Les Bon Temps Rollez

Online Gnarly He Man

  • AKA Gary
  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,222
  • Chroma means color
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #82 on: October 20, 2021, 06:05:05 PM »
Start with a G, lowered many reeds with solder and raised a handful or so a half step.
I prefer doing bebop since I then don’t have to raise any reeds.

Offline Grizzly

  • HELPER
  • MonsterMeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,334
  • aka Tom
    • Transcriptions
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #83 on: October 20, 2021, 08:06:15 PM »
(in response to one of the earlier comments about the definition of OT)  I think it might have been Seydel that started the term "orchestra tuning".  We used to call it Meisterklasse tuning because the 14 hole MK was tuned that way and at the time I believe it was the only factory tuned chromatic with that tuning.

doug t
I think I've also heard it referred to as violin tuning. For obvious reasons.

Tom

Not really GDAE, though, is it? :P

T
working on my second 10,000!

Offline Joe Phillips

  • CHARTER MEMBER
  • Chrome-Tributor
  • *
  • Posts: 110
  • Member
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #84 on: October 30, 2021, 02:16:23 AM »
Back to your original question, I have several orchestra tuned harmonicas: a Chrometta 10 (the eye-opener for me) and a 14, a Saxony, and a Seydel 10-hole diabolic. I enjoy them all and I appreciate the advantages they offer. None however, are my go to harmonica. Laziness I suppose (it takes an extra step to fetch them), even though I enjoy that lower register. I'm as likely to grab a 16, which also is not a go-to for me. Unexplainable,  especially since I fully accept the wisdom of orchestra tuning.

Offline Scotty

  • PRESIDENT'S CLUB
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 9,749
  • Elizabeth (Scotty)
    • Myspace.com/elizabethgs
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #85 on: October 30, 2021, 04:39:41 AM »
I love the 12 holes AND 16 hole chromatics --and own a lot of each - playing them all. Of course my 16 holes are all C's
while the 12 holes are in C, Tenor C and other various keys which I really enjoy. I could never be without the full 4 Octaves for those 'certain songs' which require the full range, though. Often it sounds jarring to my ear when a player transposes up to the next octave for no reason other than they've run out of notes on a chromatic.

So a 14 just doesn't fit my playing--it doesn't have sufficient notes for the 'big ballads', and for the rest I have my 12's.

scotty

Offline John M G

  • Chrome-Tributor
  • **
  • Posts: 258
  • Member
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #86 on: October 30, 2021, 09:19:19 PM »
I don't think it is the physical size of a 64 that throws some folks, ( kids play them), but more about the size mentally, the bottom two holes can help greatly change the mood ( and gender for call and answer), personally i wouldn't/couldn't be without them....but they do need practice and patience....so enter the 56...a compromise, in my opinion a 12 hole is really a ten hole,a 14 hole really a 12 hole,and a 16 hole really a 14 hole... considering the top two holes are so rarely played...gratefully.

                                                                   jh.

I totally agree and wouldn't be without my 16-64's. I think Jimmy hit the nail on the head with his assessment of the bottom 2 holes (I think the bottom 4) to change the mood

Offline Scotty

  • PRESIDENT'S CLUB
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 9,749
  • Elizabeth (Scotty)
    • Myspace.com/elizabethgs
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #87 on: November 01, 2021, 05:35:30 PM »
Yer right; I wuz always a shrimp :P I rode that bike like that for over a year before getting smart and getting my butt a little closer to the earth.

I always wished to be shorter, so I get it. My older sister was 'petite', my brother just slightly taller than average at 5'10" and then there was me, tiny up until age 11 (how I earned the soubriquet 'wean' from my older brother). Then I shot up to my full height of close to 5'8" between then and age 14. I towered over most boys (and other girls) my age, then. The problem was, all of my height was (and is) in my legs...so sitting down I was the same height as my sister (who's barely 5'2"). There was nothing more mortifying than being shyly asked to dance (at our Confraternity dances) by a boy I knew would likewise be mortified when I 'unfolded' from my chair to look down at him.
IF I simply demurred, they'd also be insulted--so what to do? It was always a difficult choice. The rare boy didn't care
and we had a great time since I loved to dance.

scotty

Offline brorat

  • PRESIDENT'S CLUB
  • Chrome-Meister
  • *
  • Posts: 1,938
  • Member
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #88 on: November 01, 2021, 09:24:23 PM »
Scotty

I have the opposite proportions. I’m six feet even. However, my waist is at the same height as my wife, who is about 5’6”. When I sit on a plane, my head is well above the head rest on the seat!  Weird.
Thankfully, none of this impacts my ability (or lack thereof!) on the chromatic harmonica.
“Just here to harp on chromatics!”

Offline SlideMeister

  • Owner/Administrator
  • MonsterMeister
  • *
  • Posts: 27,003
  • A.J. Fedor ><((((º>
    • A.J.'s mini-site
Re: Orchestra tuned
« Reply #89 on: November 01, 2021, 10:01:27 PM »
"Then I shot up to my full height of close to 5'8""

Yep! Scotty's got me by over an inch. When Barbara and I saw her sitting down at a convention, I remember greeting her with a smooch on the top of her head, cuz I knew that was the only I way I could ever reach it.  ;D