"Wichita Lineman" 'D'

[henrymouni]

Jimmy Webb song for Glen Campbell:-

Playalong:-




 I   am   a  line-man.. for   the coun---ty,......and   I  drive  the main..road. ....
 1   -2    3   -3*  -3*   -3     3     -3     5,       -2     3    -3*  -3    -2      1.

 Search-in'  in  the  sun  for  an--oth---er    o------ver-load. ..
     5      5   5    -3    5    5    5     5    -5    -4 -3    3     -3.

  I  hear you  sing---in'   in  the   wires. ...
 -3    -3   -3    -3    -3    3   -2*   -1   2.

  I   can  hear you through the   whine. ...
 -3    -3    -3    -3      3       -2*   3 -2* -1.

 And  the  Wich--i---ta   line----man,.....is   still  on  the  line. .....
  -1    -1    -3    3   -2*   3 -2*   -1,      -1    2   -1   -1    -5.

 I  know  I  need   a    small  va---ca--tion,.....but   it  don't  look like.. rain. ..
-1    -2   3    -3*  -3*  -3 3    -2    -3    5,       -2    3    -3*    -3    -2     1.

 And  if    it  snows the stretch down south will nev---er stand    the strain. ...
  -2    5   5     5      -3      5        5        5      5    5    -5   -4 -3    3      -3.

 And   I  need you more than want you. ...
  -3   -3    -3    -3    3     -2*    -1    2.

 And   I  want you   for   all   time. ...
  -3   -3    -3    -3    3    -2*  3 -2* -1.

 And  the  Wich--i---ta   line---man,...................is   still  on  the  line. .............
   -1    -1    -3   3   -2*  3 -2*   -1,                   -1   2   -1   -1    -5.

 
 And    I  need you more than want you. ...
  -3    -3    -3    -3    3      -2*   -1     2.

 And    I  want you  for  all   time. ....
  -3    -3    -3    -3    3   -2*   3 -2* -1.

 And  the  Wich---i---ta    line----man,................is   still  on  the  line. .......
  -1    -1     -3    3   -2*   3 -2*  -1                    -1    2   -1   -1    -5.

[simon]

Hearing this song ad infinitum in my early youth
made me come to hate this song. Then when I heard
Casandra Wilson do this tune the hook was set and Glenn Campells
song was redeemed.
I always enjoy seeing the tunes you put up for those people who don't
read traditional music. You make music available for a larger audience.

Billy D Simon

[henrymouni]

Hearing this song ad infinitum in my early youth
made me come to hate this song. Then when I heard
Casandra Wilson do this tune the hook was set and Glenn Campells
song was redeemed.
I always enjoy seeing the tunes you put up for those people who don't
read traditional music. You make music available for a larger audience.

Billy D Simon

Thanks Billy,
  That means a lot to me!!

Take care of yourself,

Henry.

[Grizzly]

I've never seen the words in print before. That was a treat, because I never understood them just listening to them. Thanks.

Tom

[grace]

[quote author=billy d simon link=topic=2377.msg26543#msg26543 date=12460988
I always enjoy seeing the tunes you put up for those people who don't
read traditional music.
Billy D Simon

[/quote]
I've been struggling to come up with the right words to think and talk about reading "traditional music" vs the tabs for chromatic harmonica. Is this how to name these things or is there some other more precise way to talk about how musical instructions are expressed in written form?  Thanks  Grace

[henrymouni]

I've never seen the words in print before. That was a treat, because I never understood them just listening to them. Thanks.

Tom

Hey Tom,
 You don't get many words in Classical Music!!


Henry.

[Grizzly]

I've never seen the words in print before. That was a treat, because I never understood them just listening to them. Thanks.

Tom

Hey Tom,
 You don't get many words in Classical Music!!


Henry.

Except in Beethoven's Ninth Symphony; Bach's cantatas, B minor Mass, motets; Schubert's art songs; thousands of madrigals; Grand Opera; works by Heinrich Schütz, Stravinsky, Mozart, Harbison, Lauritson and Aaron Copland, which I've sung recently …

Shall I go on?

You need to get out more, Henry.

Tom

[simon]

Hi Grace
  I wondered if in fact that was the best word to chose and because so often "history is written by the victors" academia was somehow responsible for bringing about a more comprehensive way to communicate these ideas and formulas and even fareting out ideas and making standards that are used. When I began to play it was only by ear. I had a chrom but did not know how to read. Lauras Theme was a song that I knew but the bridge was unfamiliar to me so I went to a music store and purchased the sheet. Then I went with my daughter to Westminster college to one of her piano lessons and the teaher played the bridge for me so I could hear it. Once hearing I played it and understood how it sounded. Then the teacher looks mortified and tells me that I was not playing it in the correct key that the piece had been written in,to which my reply was I didn't care.I was now playing the bridge and was so elated that I could have played in the key of Q and it wold not have mattered a lick.

I would purchase music and make my own type of tab that I used for some time. Because music much of the time limits itself (at least ballads) to one octave my system ( I'm not advocating just sharing the path That worked for moi) was easy for me.(I didn't even know octaves) Placing either a B or D over the notes or a B- or a D- would allow me to know if the note was a blow ( B ) or draw ( D ) or if slide (- )  was in. That is how I pounded my head against the wall and I guess it worked. I have taken the time and monies and learned ho w to read western music. The sooner you can hire a coach or teacher the sooner you will have under your belt the ability to more quickly pick up pieces you might not know and play and learn them. In this forum Gearge Miklas is to my knowledge opinion of the premier music theory people as well as a stellar musician. Anytime you have an opportunity to glean something from him, do so.

Billy D Simon

[smojoe]

History is written by the victors.......One of my all time favorite phrases.
Westminster......Lisa got her Ba there before going on to Carnegie Tech.
George Miklas......Got me started on reading music.

I like the way you think Bill. We seem to be clones. Cassie says 'Hi'

Jo-Zeppi

[henrymouni]

I've never seen the words in print before. That was a treat, because I never understood them just listening to them. Thanks.

Tom

Hey Tom,
 You don't get many words in Classical Music!!


Henry.

Except in Beethoven's Ninth Symphony; Bach's cantatas, B minor Mass, motets; Schubert's art songs; thousands of madrigals; Grand Opera; works by Heinrich Schütz, Stravinsky, Mozart, Harbison, Lauritson and Aaron Copland, which I've sung recently …

Shall I go on?

You need to get out more, Henry.

Tom

OK Tom I'll give you that, but is it written in English?



Henry.
The homebird!

[simon]

George also taught me as well as helping to keep
a good standard on the music. He is a good teacher.
If he still teaches it is worth the investment.
Is Cas back from the burgh? Tell her "Hey"
   
Billy D Simon

PS I think that the real lyrics are
"Iam a lineman for the Cowboys and I work the back lines...

[Grizzly]

I've been struggling to come up with the right words to think and talk about reading "traditional music" vs the tabs for chromatic harmonica. Is this how to name these things or is there some other more precise way to talk about how musical instructions are expressed in written form?  Thanks  Grace

I have never seen a tablature that, in and of itself, is precise. It provides the following items, which standard notation does not:

1. hole numbers
2. slide position
3. breath direction

which, by themselves, are next to useless.

Tablature relies on one important factor: A foreknowledge of what the tune sounds like. This can take the form of a recording or a remembrance (aural image).

Only then will a player know:

1. what the rhythms are
2. what the range is
3. what the tempo is
5. what the dynamics are
6. what the mood is
7. how to articulate the notes
8. even what the original key is

which, after many repetitions, gives a player an idea of what it should sound like. And all of which can be written accurately on a sheet of paper, incorporated into standard notation.

Henry, if you tabbed out an unfamiliar piece, leaving the words out, would anyone be able to play it? What you're doing is great, and much appreciated, but it relies on peoples' familiarity with the tunes to begin with. Including a recording with some of your tabs is a fine adjunct.

A combination of tab and standard notation may increase tab's usefulness and accuracy. Unfortunately, I'm not set up to demonstrate this. It would take some music copying software, which I don't have on this computer.

Given the hole numbers, slide position and breath direction in your tab, those symbols can be attached to the stems, flags, dots and beams of standard rhythmic notation, substituting the numbers for the note heads. Decoding the rhythms from the standard notation may be the easiest part of reading music; the combination of the two would really enhance the tab's usefulness.

It's very similar to my many tabs for fretted dulcimer.

Tom

[Grizzly]

Except in Beethoven's Ninth Symphony; Bach's cantatas, B minor Mass, motets; Schubert's art songs; thousands of madrigals; Grand Opera; works by Heinrich Schütz, Stravinsky, Mozart, Harbison, Lauritson and Aaron Copland, which I've sung recently …

Shall I go on?

You need to get out more, Henry.

Tom



OK Tom I'll give you that, but is it written in English?



Henry.
The homebird!

Henry Purcell. Thomas Tallis. G. F. Händel. Ralph Vaughan Williams. John Rutter. John Tavener. Edward Elgar. To name just a few English composers of vocal and choral music who wrote music to English texts.

Tom

[simon]

Is it Church Windows by Raph Vaughan Williams?
Great  tune.
Billy
D Simon

[Grizzly]

"History is written by the victors"

I'm reminded of an old propaganda joke about a race between and American horse and a Russian (USSR) horse:  The American newspapers reported, "American horse comes in first; Russian horse second." Tass reported, "Russian horse comes in second; American horse next to last."

It begs the question, "Who is victorious?"

Tom

[Grizzly]

Is it Church Windows by Raph Vaughan Williams?
Great  tune.
Billy
D Simon

Couldn't find it in Wikipedia. Doesn't mean it isn't.

Tom

[Grizzly]

Is it Church Windows by Raph Vaughan Williams?
Great  tune.
Billy
D Simon

Couldn't find it in Wikipedia. Doesn't mean it isn't.

Tom

Try http://www.rvwsociety.com/workssymph.html ; I didn't find it here.

T

[Ziggy]

Huh.... this song is in "D"?
I have been playing it for years.
I didn't know I was playing in such exotic keys. I must be much more talented than I think I am. 
Ziggy

[Ziggy]

I've been struggling to come up with the right words to think and talk about reading "traditional music" vs the tabs for chromatic harmonica. Is this how to name these things or is there some other more precise way to talk about how musical instructions are expressed in written form?  Thanks  Grace

Isn't "traditional music"  known as "Music notation" or simply "Notation"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_notation
Z

[Gnarly He Man]

I like to call it "staff" or "staff notation".
Altho guitar tab is written on a 6 line staff, where each line is a string.
I find guitar tab much easier to read than staff!
Gary

[Grizzly]

I've been struggling to come up with the right words to think and talk about reading "traditional music" vs the tabs for chromatic harmonica. Is this how to name these things or is there some other more precise way to talk about how musical instructions are expressed in written form?  Thanks  Grace

Isn't "traditional music"  known as "Music notation" or simply "Notation"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_notation
Z

Wiki: "Music notation or musical notation is any system which represents aurally perceived music, through the use of written symbols."

Both (what I've been calling) "standard" [musical] notation and tablature fit the definition. What I call standard Wiki prefers "modern."

For this discussion, anything we're not identifying as tab[lature] is modern (standard) musical notation. I agree that that's what Grace means when she says "traditional."

Tom the Wonk

[grace]

It seems like if I use the term "standard notation" for the kind of notation I learned in my classical music training and the term "chromatic tablature" for the tabs used for chromatic harmonica I will be using language that is likely to be understood. I just got kind of puzzled up about it.  "real music" was an interesting concept. "Traditional music" has many meanings esp to folk musicians. "music"  and "notation" weren't working for me-too many possible meanings. Thanks for the help achieving a bit of clarity in my thinking. (and hopefully my writing)  grace

[Ziggy]

It seems like if I use the term "standard notation" for the kind of notation I learned in my classical music training and the term "chromatic tablature" for the tabs used for chromatic harmonica I will be using language that is likely to be understood. I just got kind of puzzled up about it.  "real music" was an interesting concept. "Traditional music" has many meanings esp to folk musicians. "music"  and "notation" weren't working for me-too many possible meanings. Thanks for the help achieving a bit of clarity in my thinking. (and hopefully my writing)  grace

If you use the terms "notation"  and "tablature" I am sure that 99 & 44/100% of the people here will understand what you are talking about.

I disagree with wikipedia that Tablature is musical notation......There is nothing "musical" about it.

It does not convey music. No one can look at  Tablature and hum the song. It is a way of converting the mechanics of playing a song, on a specific instrument, to paper. As you said, it is necessary to know the song in advance in order to use Tablature..

-5 -5 -5 -7  7 -6< 7  -5 -5

Doesn't tell me time signature, note length, tempo, etc. but I'll bet some will figure out what song this is by playing around with  it. But only if they have heard the song before.
But not if I hand it to a guitarist, or a pianist.

The Musical notation, as I will refer to it, can be handed to any musician* any where in the world and she / he will play the intro to the 1970 top 40 hit, on any instrument.

Ziggy

* those who can read music.

PS. I am not knocking tabs. They are a fun and easy way to learn songs. I use them all the time with my Harping! software.

[Grizzly]

Ziggy, I couldn't agree more strongly. "Our" tablature isn't like the tablature Wiki refers to, which can contain much more information. But just like our modern musical notation, it assumed a certain knowledge on the part of the musician. Our harmonica tab requires us to know a lot more about a piece than guitar tab or dulcimer tab (of which I'm familiar) does.

Adding rhythm values to the harmonica tab isn't the whole answer, but it would allow us to figure out the tune more easily, and not require sophisticated music reading skills.

Tom

[Vern]

Adding time values to harp tab makes it much more like standard notation.  The more that you try to give tab the advantages, the more it will become like std notation.

Do you agree that reading the time values is as difficult and important as reading the pitches?

The analog of high on the staff = high pitch and the look of intervals are important advantages of std notation that are lacking in tab.

"Tab is the same for all keyed harps".  You could say the same for std notation in C.  Just pick up another harp, and read it in C. 

Vern

[Grizzly]

Do you agree that reading the time values is as difficult and important as reading the pitches?

Absolutely not. Time values are just arithmetic. Placement of notes on the staff is much more difficult to comprehend, considering that subsequent octaves have the same named notes reversed as to whether they're on lines or spaces. Figuring out key signatures takes a lot of practice; and if a player is going to change harmonicas in order to stay in first position, the position of notes on the staff become very befuddling.

The analog of high on the staff = high pitch and the look of intervals are important advantages of std notation that are lacking in tab.

Not really. The higher the number of the hole, the higher the pitch. Readers of tabs like Henry's do it all the time. It's not linear, but it is visual.

"Tab is the same for all keyed harps".  You could say the same for std notation in C.  Just pick up another harp, and read it in C. 

That's a good start. But it limits players to music written in the key of C. I  would have lost 80% of my recital if I had to switch harmonicas just to stay in first position.

Tom

[Vern]

By "timing as difficult as pitch" I had in mind the Bona exercises that Bonfiglio recommends and distributes with his added notes about which side of the mouth to use.  The number of harmonica pitches is limited to to 48 or 64.  The number of variations of note durations, meters, with ties, dots, and rests is virtually infinite.

While I agree that timing in standard notation is just math, so is pitch.  It is the intervals of the diatonic scale mapped at different places on the absolute chromatic scale.  Given a few seconds, you can figure it out.  Trying to read it at tempo is another matter entirely...at least for me.

Once I have a piece in my computer in std notation, Allegro (and presumably other musical software) can transpose it into any key with a single command. That makes std notation in C a way to handle different-keyed harps.  I wanted to play Meditation by Massenet on a 12-hole HFC.  It is in D and goes below Middle-C.  I transposed it to G and read it on a G harp.  One sharp from the sheet music + one sharp from the harp gives 2 sharps in the concert pitch. It just barely fits in the range of the G harp.

It seems to me that a player who wants to play from tab must learn to convert standard notation source material to tab. Surely he cannot depend on others to provide tab for all of the music he wishes to play.  Once he starts doing that on a regular basis, he will soon be able to do it in his head and...he will be reading std notation!

It sems to me that any effort spent learning to read tab rapidly is wasted, leading the player up a musical blind alley.

Vern


 

[Grizzly]

By "timing as difficult as pitch" I had in mind the Bona exercises that Bonfiglio recommends and distributes with his added notes about which side of the mouth to use.  The number of harmonica pitches is limited to to 48 or 64.  The number of variations of note durations, meters, with ties, dots, and rests is virtually infinite.

While I agree that timing in standard notation is just math, so is pitch.  It is the intervals of the diatonic scale mapped at different places on the absolute chromatic scale.  Given a few seconds, you can figure it out.  Trying to read it at tempo is another matter entirely...at least for me.

Once I have a piece in my computer in std notation, Allegro (and presumably other musical software) can transpose it into any key with a single command. That makes std notation in C a way to handle different-keyed harps.
8<
It seems to me that a player who wants to play from tab must learn to convert standard notation source material to tab. Surely he cannot depend on others to provide tab for all of the music he wishes to play.  Once he starts doing that on a regular basis, he will soon be able to do it in his head and...he will be reading std notation!

It sems to me that any effort spent learning to read tab rapidly is wasted, leading the player up a musical blind alley.

Vern

An infinite number of rhythm combinations? I'd have to agree. But within the framework of a single piece of music, the variations are much more limited. With whole, half, quarter and eighth notes, and dots after any of them to add half the value to a note (a dot makes a two-beat note into a three-beat note), many songs have only six symbols to figure out.

With standard notation, those 48 to 64 notes, spread over three to four octaves on a musical staff (above and below, with leger lines, which only confuses the issue), and no hole numbers to associate with them, figuring out pitch from standard notation for the non-reader is supremely daunting.

Combine rhythm notation with tablature, and you get something more useable than straight tab. The assigned beats of the rhythm symbols should be within the reach of any non-music reader.

I spent years constructing just such tablature for fretted dulcimer. The three or four lines represented the strings on the instrument; the numbers represented the frets; and the rhythm notation, borrowed from standard notation, gave the note values. With harmonica, the three or four lines are reduced to one line of numbers, with the note values underneath. Bar lines (measure lines) complete the picture.

One of the goals of converting standard notation to tab is to make a piece of music more understandable. Doing it for oneself may very well lead to a certain facility in reading standard notation. But I don't think that's Henry's only goal; he means to share it with us. Others of us surely can depend on him and others.

If we can learn to read standard notation rapidly, what would prevent any of us from learning to read tab (especially with my suggested modification) rapidly? I can do it on dulcimer, after all.

I read music well enough to sight-read a lot of music on flute and on harmonica. I never got really good at reading more complicated music from standard notation on dulcimer, though. It certainly wasn't a waste of my time to write out and share my tabs for dulcimer. And I can sight-read others' dulcimer tabs pretty well.

Tom

[grace]

I've been trying to teach myself to read tabs using the sheet music with tabs that Henry has been sending me.  Its hard not to cheat and just read the standard notation.  If there was a tablature that Incorporated information about the length of the notes that would be really neat. I keep looking at the standard notation to get that information and in the process "cheat" and use the familiar standard notation instead of the tabs that I am trying to learn to use. I guess that tabs are intended to be used for music that is already familiar.  The book that I want to be able to use that is in tab has songs that I don't know  in it. (or am only vaguely familiar with) I guess there are two separate issues here for me-one is the book that isn't useful to me and the other is wanting to learn to read tabs so that I can play music that is written that way for songs that I do know. Grace

[henrymouni]

I've been trying to teach myself to read tabs using the sheet music with tabs that Henry has been sending me.  Its hard not to cheat and just read the standard notation.  If there was a tablature that Incorporated information about the length of the notes that would be really neat. I keep looking at the standard notation to get that information and in the process "cheat" and use the familiar standard notation instead of the tabs that I am trying to learn to use. I guess that tabs are intended to be used for music that is already familiar.  The book that I want to be able to use that is in tab has songs that I don't know  in it. (or am only vaguely familiar with) I guess there are two separate issues here for me-one is the book that isn't useful to me and the other is wanting to learn to read tabs so that I can play music that is written that way for songs that I do know. Grace

Hi Grace.
Why do you want to use tabs if you can read music?
Just ignore the tabbed part of the music and use the standard notation,
or am I missing something?


Henry.