F and F# problem Hohner Super 64

[Ed McCullough]

Some people have said that the valves associated with these reeds squawk and make other noise when you play loudly. I fixed this in one harmonica by working on the valve. I replaced it with a felt and braced it with a piece of plastic stiffener. I can not yet fix it in another harmonica.
-- What Solutions have you found?

[Gnarly He Man]

Just had an issue with F3 on a customer's Super64X Performance--replaced the valve and it still buzzed.
So I put a kink in the old one and it doesn't buzz.
Stupid fiddly harmonicas . . .
BTW, this one is at 444+, he wants it at 442ish--he said 440 and I talked him out of it . . .

[Ed McCullough]

You wrote that your solution was putting a kink into the valve. Do you mean you put an arch in the top layer?

[Age]

Just had an issue with F3 on a customer's Super64X Performance--replaced the valve and it still buzzed.
So I put a kink in the old one and it doesn't buzz.
Stupid fiddly harmonicas . . .
BTW, this one is at 444+, he wants it at 442ish--he said 440 and I talked him out of it . . .

That happened to me once. Fortunately I had a buncha different kinds of valves and finally tried one of Romels stiff black ones and it worked fine.
 442? IMO; Good call!

[Gnarly He Man]

You wrote that your solution was putting a kink into the valve. Do you mean you put an arch in the top layer?

You crease the valve so that there is an arch.
Your mileage may vary.
It works, and it was not my idea--I might have gotten it from Smoky!

[Ed McCullough]

I already tried that. Okay. I'll try it again and try variation on the same idea. Thanks.

[Age]

You wrote that your solution was putting a kink into the valve. Do you mean you put an arch in the top layer?

You crease the valve so that there is an arch.
Your mileage may vary.
It works, and it was not my idea--I might have gotten it from Smoky!

Smokey sed he yoosta use a cat's whiskers as "reed springs."  Oooooo! Sounds kinda exotic, eh?

[Age]

Another interesting trick which came on a couple of Swan 14 holers I got from a "customizer" waaay back when, was to put a "knee" in the clear "spring" part of the valve. While I hated the two Swans I got from the guy, for a lotta other reasons and got rid of them rather quickly, I didn't play them long enough to test the principle behind the "knee" thing. In retrospect however, the principle made a lotta sense, and I can't help but feel that the trick could've been very effective at both holding the valve in place and eliminating any chance of the old standard Reed chatter caused by the two layers sticking together. Now that I'm thinking about it, I think I'll try it on my next valve job.

[Gnarly He Man]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Lockjaw Larry]

Rick Epping has some excellent YouTube lessons on working on harmonicas.  One such session is on valves and he demonstrates a tool he invented to flatten unruly valves.  See attached for YouTube address…

[Grizzly]

You wrote that your solution was putting a kink into the valve. Do you mean you put an arch in the top layer?

You crease the valve so that there is an arch.
Your mileage may vary.
It works, and it was not my idea--I might have gotten it from Smoky!

Smokey sed he yoosta use a cat's whiskers as "reed springs."  Oooooo! Sounds kinda exotic, eh?

Poor cat!

T

[Grizzly]

You wrote that your solution was putting a kink into the valve. Do you mean you put an arch in the top layer?

I've kinked valves. It applies more spring pressure to the bottom layer. Put a needle crosswise between layers, press against the needle with a finger over the top layer above the needle. Where you place the needle determines how much pressure is added.

Tom

[Age]

Not an arch, an actual "knee". Looked like a grasshopper leg that touched (at the tip) to the sealing part of the valve about a quarter of the way up. I suppose you could make them any way you wanted as long as you statrte out with valves that were for the botton holes on a 16 holer.

Here, I just bent one up for ya!

[Age]

Looks kinda wierd, (I gave up tryin' to spell wierd rite - it's a brain lock thing ) but only to folks that are peeking under the hood of your old Chrombo

[brorat]

Not an arch, an actual "knee". Looked like a grasshopper leg that touched (at the tip) to the sealing part of the valve about a quarter of the way up. I suppose you could make them any way you wanted as long as you statrte out with valves that were for the botton holes on a 16 holer.

Here, I just bent one up for ya!

So ... it's amazing that there's enough room between the reed plate and cover to allow this "elbow" without hitting against the cover.

[Ed McCullough]

I've used exactly the same technique that you guys ( no gals today) described. Grizzly's picture is welcome, because it shows a variation of the technique, which is slightly different from my technique.
I've been using a paper clip wire, instead of a needle. A partially straightened paper clip is in my little tool collection with tweezers and the screwdrivers.

[Age]

Not an arch, an actual "knee". Looked like a grasshopper leg that touched (at the tip) to the sealing part of the valve about a quarter of the way up. I suppose you could make them any way you wanted as long as you statrte out with valves that were for the botton holes on a 16 holer.

Here, I just bent one up for ya!

So ... it's amazing that there's enough room between the reed plate and cover to allow this "elbow" without hitting against the cover.

I dunno! Maybe it does. and just doesn't make noise when it happens. and too, you can always put the "knee" just about anywhere in the "spring" portion of the valve, as well as at any angle, so the bend trick can be more or less "dialed up" to fit any application.

[servus]

Back to Rick Epping. I bought his valve tool and used it on curled valves. it really has worked for me. Whether it's a solution comparable to the arch valve or useful for the problem demanding arching the valve???


                    PJ

[Age]

Yeah, I got one from Rick too, the last time I saw him at a SPAH convention. They actually work pretty well; you just hafta be careful to keep enough pressure on the rivet end of the valve so you don't pull the whole valve off like an idiot. (a lotta guys do that)  After loosing my little "Epping gizmo," I've learned that I can also use a paper clip and a good fingernail. 

[John Broecker]

What brand name and model are your
harp(s)? What key is factory-installed
on your slide chromatic(s)?

Are the F-F# valves gurgling only on a
key of C chromatic, or on other factory-
installed keyed harmonicas, too?

I've played the F-F# valves on a key of
F harp, G harp (both Hohner 270s); and
key of C harp (Hering 12-hole Baritono).
No problems with any of these harps.

The paper clip; pin; methods with
finger/thumb pressure are discussed
in the instructional chromatic harp
book, "Make Your Harmonica Play Well",
by Doug Tate, former SPAH President.

The book is currently published by
Centerstream Publications. It's clearly
presented.

If, like me, you learn by reading & doing,
the book covers many other topics for
harmonica maintenance and repairs.

Best Regards, Stay Valved

JB

[Age]

I've been a mechanic for seventy years. (Eee Gads - THAT makes me feel old ) Started fixing lawn mowers when I was ten, and I've found that "Doing" is always the best teacher. While it's always a good to have the general idea of what you're attempting in the first place, if you manage to screw something up, (which will happen from time to time ) that's a lesson well learned, and you won't make that particular mistake again.

[brorat]

There was a pottery class. The teacher tried an experiment. He divided the class into two groups. Group one was told to make a pot each day for thirty days. Group two was told to make one pot and perfect it over thirty days. The top three winning pots all came from group one.

Perfection is nearly impossible to achieve. But we come closer through trial and error; learning from our mistakes along the way and not making that mistake again on the next try.

Group one tried again every day, and got better by not repeating their mistakes.

Group two spent 29 days trying to cover the mistakes they made on day one.

Learning to play the chromatic harmonica isn’t magic. It’s just starting over every day by wiping out previous mistakes and trying again. Maintenance of the instrument is no different. Don’t be afraid of failure in either case!

[Grizzly]

I've been a mechanic for seventy years. (Eee Gads - THAT makes me feel old ) Started fixing lawn mowers when I was ten, and I've found that "Doing" is always the best teacher. While it's always a good to have the general idea of what you're attempting in the first place, if you manage to screw something up, (which will happen from time to time ) that's a lesson well learned, and you won't make that particular mistake again.

"Doing something the same way again and expecting different results is a sign of insanity." "If you're gonna make a mistake, make it a big one." "Consider the day lost if you don't catch he!! for something." Despite formal education, I think the most accomplished people are essentially self-taught. "Experience is the best teacher."

"Why isn't he better? He's had 20 years of experience." "No, he's had one year of experience repeated 20 times."

Seen on T shirts: "Of course I don't act my age. I've never been this old before." "So when does this 'old enough to know better' kick in?" "It’s weird being the same age as old people."

  Tom Baehr (1744  years old [in Santa Claus years]) (Musician for 70.)

[Age]

Yeah, old is one adventure I never anticipated. It's an amazing experience, but the biggest surprise is how quickly it got here.

[Ed McCullough]

John B:
The problem occurs in the seventh hole from the right in a Hohner Super 64 or 64X. If you are playing a C harmonica, the problem occurs when you play a F or F#. If you are playing a harmonica tuned to a different key, then the problem still occurs and it's in the seventh hole from the right. The problem is related to the valves, not the reeds

[Grizzly]

Yeah, old is one adventure I never anticipated. It's an amazing experience, but the biggest surprise is how quickly it got here.

That could go on a T shirt!

T

[Age]

Yeah, old is one adventure I never anticipated. It's an amazing experience, but the biggest surprise is how quickly it got here.

That could go on a T shirt!

T

Thinking about gettin some more SlideMeister T-shirts made.
Hey, I could include it under the logo, since we're pretty
much all older than dirt.

[Danny G]

Get some with pockets and I'd order a couple

[Age]

Right now, I think I have about 15 or 20 "raw" large T's in a box (leftovers from the last batch) but no more with pockets.

[John Broecker]

Ed:

Thanks for the clarification.

I went back to my stable of 64-
chroms, and one 1456 (MK)
Meisterklasse reed placement
system slide harp.

On this chart, all harps are played
in hole 7 from the right side of the
mouthpiece.

Hohner Super 64: no valve gurgling, slide in;
checking valves.

Hohner Super 64X: same as above

Hohner 64 Chromonica: same, no irregularities

Hohner Professional 2016 CBH: same, no changes

Susuki SCT 128 Chromatic Tremolo: no change

Huang 1456 (14 hole harp): no gurgling

Best Regards, Stay Healthy

I didn't try my 2 Meisterklasse chromatics.

JB