Square Hohner mouthpiece screw nut

[Ed McCullough]

I was extremely embarrassed two weeks ago to have lost a square mouthpiece nut when I had one of my newest harmonicas apart. When I opened an old harmonica to scavenge a nut, I found that I had glued the nut in place in my older harmonicas. I just glued all the nuts in my three most recent harmonicas.
-. That older harmonica also had a set of reedplate gaskets made by that guy in Erie, Pennsylvania. It also had a set of Power Plugs made by Brandon Power. They sweeten the sounds of the reeds in the highest pitched octave. I put those power plugs into one of my pre2018 Super 64X. harmonicas.
I am going to use kitchen and bathtub caulk to copy the shape of the power plugs in my most recent harmonicas. My Performance Super 64X had a half-hearted imitation of the power plugs as it left the factory. The highest octave notes in that harmonica do not sound sweet enough, so I'm going to build up the power plugs in my Performance 64X.
-. Jeepers. This work goes on forever. I haven't mentioned that I'm tuning three 16-holers to A 440.

[Age]

Busy busy! 

A-440?
In all my life, I had had somehow managed to buy a Hohner 270 that was tuned to A-440. I could never play that thing with anything. It had great sounding reeds, but it always sounded flat, or something. I didn't realize at the time (that was about forty years ago) what was going on. Now that I think of it, I may even still have that old bugger around here somewhere.

[Ed McCullough]

Pianos in churches are generally tuned to A440. Classical style musicians in this country generally use A440. I'm willing to be told I'm wrong, that is what I think.

[John Broecker]

My Swan 1248 chromatic was tuned to A=440
(the pitch A, in the treble clef, vibrates at 440
cycles per second).

A=440 is an international tuning, set to make musical
groups world-wide, in tune collectively. In the past 50
years or so, that standard has been changed by individual
performers and small groups.

On the harmonica, the manufacturers have stated that
when a performer plays, the pitch is brought down a
few "cents". If the pitch starts at A=440, it will drop
to A=438, etc.

So, the manufacturers have set the standard tuning to
A=442 or 443, and the pitch goes down to A=440.
That doesn't always work, but that's the reason the
harp makers use to boost the cps (cycles per second).

Whenever I used it at rehearsals, other harp players
commented that it was "out of tune". We checked the
tuning, and my Swan was the only slide harp in the
room, with A=440 tuning. The other brands were at
442 or 443, in general.

The Swan sounded good to me, but my hearing is
suspect, especially in the upper octave range. So,
I sold it to another slider.

Best Regards, Stay Healthy

JB

[Ed McCullough]

I know that other harmonica players use the 442 tuning that comes out of the factory, but I do not get together with other harmonica players.

[Age]

John,
Over the years, Swan sent me four 1248's and all of them were either .442 or 443.
Is your Swan a 1248-6 or -5?

[Age]

I know that other harmonica players use the 442 tuning that comes out of the factory, but. . . . . . do not get together with other harmonica players.

Join us on Zoom next Thursday

[John Broecker]

Hello, Age.

My Swan 1248 was won in a prize drawing
circa 2000 or earlier. It was not a production
#5 or #6. I don't know it's production number,
but it was earlier than #5 or #6.

JB

[Ed McCullough]

I tune my harmonicas for A440 as I am playing them. I don't bother with any seat of the pants guess about starting at 442 and then having the pitch come down to 440 as I play. Other people can play that game.

[Age]

440 works fine as long as you don't load the reeds when you play.

[Age]

Hello, Age.

My Swan 1248 was won in a prize drawing
circa 2000 or earlier. It was not a production
#5 or #6. I don't know it's production number,
but it was earlier than #5 or #6.

JB

If it's straight tuned, it's a -5 or less.  I'm pretty sure the -6 and -7 were all cross tuned. I bought two -5 fourteen hole, straight tuned Swans anout twenty years ago and was completely disappointed.

Sand man's calling🥱

[John Broecker]

Hello, Ed:

Factory pitched A=440 tuning is no problem
when you are a soloist without accompaniment.

Age:

My Swan 1248 was a #5 or earlier. It had
straight reed placement ("Knittlinger System").

Knittlinger system harps have all of the reeds
of a major scale on one reed plate. On a slide
harp, the lower reed plate has another major
scale, slide in, a half step higher.

JB

[Ed McCullough]

John,
When the piano or other players I am with are tuned to A440, everything works perfectly.

[John Broecker]

Hello, Ed:
 
That's correct. When every player's instrument 
is tuned to A=440, your A=440 harp will fit like
a glove.

When the group's other players' instruments
are not A=440, perceptive ears will hear a
sound similar to playing an Asian tremolo harp.

My ears are not perceptive. They are deceptive,
not receptive. Maybe I should hire a detective.

[Grizzly]

When I got my Super 64 many years ago, I had Hohner re-tune it to 440. Age said I'd regret it. I didn't. Our church's piano slips to 438 or lower in the winter. The original 444 of the harmonica was totally incompatible.

I play mostly CX 12s these days. Original tuning within each instrument, purchased years ago, varied from 444 to 436(!) Most annoying. I retuned to 442, and, with the piano tuned to 440, it's a good fit. Two "cents" difference is hardly noticeable. I never learned how to "load" reeds. If I have to, I play the Super 64 with the piano in the winter. Again, 440 with 438 works.

Tom

[servus]

442 and 443 are most common in Germany - and I suppose in other countries in Europe. My Seydel Symphony 48 Orchestra weighs in at 442 or 443. Manipulating my embouchure allows for some flexibility. Ditto 442 or 443 for my Seydel-No Slider and my Easttop Forerunner 2. My Ebay Hohner Meisterklasse is clearly 440. My Haynes flute (American) from 1965 is also tuned to 440 - with adjustment possible south of that number by lengthening the tube. To raise the pitch I need to change my embouchure. My teacher's flute is tuned to 442. He has plenty of room for adjustments by lengthing the tube.

                   PJ

[Age]

When I got my Super 64 many years ago, I had Hohner re-tune it to 440. Age said I'd regret it. I didn't. Our church's piano slips to 438 or lower in the winter. The original 444 of the harmonica was totally incompatible.

I play mostly CX 12s these days. Original tuning within each instrument, purchased years ago, varied from 444 to 436(!) Most annoying. I retuned to 442, and, with the piano tuned to 440, it's a good fit. Two "cents" difference is hardly noticeable. I never learned how to "load" reeds. If I have to, I play the Super 64 with the piano in the winter. Again, 440 with 438 works.

Tom

Yeah the .440 "downside" doesn't really show up till start loading the reeds. The more ya load, the better ya sound "playing alone." 

[servus]

Um...I don't know what "loading the reeds" means...


                      PJ

[Grizzly]

442 and 443 are most common in Germany - and I suppose in other countries in Europe. My Seydel Symphony 48 Orchestra weighs in at 442 or 443. Manipulating my embouchure allows for some flexibility. Ditto 442 or 443 for my Seydel-No Slider and my Easttop Forerunner 2. My Ebay Hohner Meisterklasse is clearly 440. My Haynes flute (American) from 1965 is also tuned to 440 - with adjustment possible south of that number by lengthening the tube. To raise the pitch I need to change my embouchure. My teacher's flute is tuned to 442. He has plenty of room for adjustments by lengthing the tube.

                   PJ

I worked for Brannen Brothers Flutemakers for 31 years. The go-to, most common pitch center was A=442. Some European customers wanted 444. We may have made a handful of 446es. The US Armed Forces Bands all wanted 440. One customer wanted different pitch centers for the left hand tone holes than the right hand tone holes, two cents apart. A real one-off!

My personal Brannen is 442.

Tom

I should also mention that, when the standard pitch changed from A=435 to 440, flute makers just lopped off enough of the headjoint to accomodate the new standard. Which threw the intonation for all the other notes off!

T

[Ed McCullough]

Tom,
- What various pitches do symphony orchestras in the US tune to?
- Bonfiglio said something curious once. He said that as orchestras play a piece of music, they often shift their pitch up slightly during the performance. If he is playing with the orchestra, he starts with a harmonica that is tuned to the agreed upon pitch. As they play and raise the pitch, he pulls out of his back pocket another harmonica that is tuned just a little bit higher. He puts the first harmonica away and continues with the harmonica that he pulled from his pocket.

[Age]

Tom,
- What various pitches do symphony orchestras in the US tune to?
- Bonfiglio said something curious once. He said that as orchestras play a piece of music, they often shift their pitch up slightly during the performance. If he is playing with the orchestra, he starts with a harmonica that is tuned to the agreed upon pitch. As they play and raise the pitch, he pulls out of his back pocket another harmonica that is tuned just a little bit higher. He puts the first harmonica away and continues with the harmonica that he pulled from his pocket.

Unlike Bob "Spanky" McFarlain, who can do amazing things with pitch. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't use .444 as his standard pitch, and load it down to whatever the music called for. The guy's amazing.

[Age]

Um...I don't know what "loading the reeds" means...


                      PJ

It's kinda like (to use a different term) a "choke" or a restriction in the airflow, that's on its way to the reed, that causes the reed to vibrate slower, therefor lowering the pitch. It can be done with the throat or embrasure or any other trick you can think of that modifies the airflow. Anyone that's in to "tone modification" pretty much hasta "load the reed" to do that. 

[servus]

Aha, gotcha, Age. Thanks. I kind of thought it had to be something like that...a little bit like bending I suppose.

And Tom, I'd prefer it if my Haynes was tuned to 442. When I play with others, they always have to accommodate me. I guess 440 was still the thing in 1965 when my Haynes was new. I remember going into a music store on 48th St. in Manhattan around 1965. There were bunches of music stores on 48th St. back then. No idea about today. Haven't been in NY in years. They were selling piccolos in one store, a whole barrel full, for some crazy price like 50$. They were marked "438" (or was it "435"?).

               PJ

[Grizzly]

"They were selling piccolos in one store, a whole barrel full, for some crazy price like 50$. They were marked "438" (or was it "435"?)."

Coulda been either.

T

Searching Google, A=338 is a thing, especially among guitarists.

[Grizzly]

Tom,
- What various pitches do symphony orchestras in the US tune to?
- Bonfiglio said something curious once. He said that as orchestras play a piece of music, they often shift their pitch up slightly during the performance. If he is playing with the orchestra, he starts with a harmonica that is tuned to the agreed upon pitch. As they play and raise the pitch, he pulls out of his back pocket another harmonica that is tuned just a little bit higher. He puts the first harmonica away and continues with the harmonica that he pulled from his pocket.

I don't have knowledge of pitches American orchestras tune to. As for Robert, what's the possibility that, because of fatigue or whatever, he inadvertently loads the reeds, causing his playing to go flat? I can't imagine that any orchestra would collectively and intentionally agree to raise pitch as they played. String players' open strings wouldn't go sharp all by themselves, and pushing tuning slides in would be very inconvenient.

The only other culprit I can think of would be a raise in the ambient temperature in the concert hall. But how would that affect all instruments equally? And why wouldn't it affect Robert's harmonica?

Tom

[Grizzly]

Tuning video: source of A=440.



Before there was a standard pitch for A, orchestras tuned to the oboe playing its A above Middle C. Different orchestras tuned differently as a result, as oboes varied in pitch, depending on who made it. I don't know when pitch could be determined with any accuracy, but so-called Baroque pitch is A=415, and other early pitch centers could vary, up to as high as A=450.

That's bass ackwards to common practice today. Orchestras still tune to the oboe, but oboes are more standardized, and the player tunes the instrument (by adjusting the length that the reed protrudes from the instrument), often playing into a tuner.

Tom

[Lockjaw Larry]

That’s interesting Grizz.  So I’m thinking, ( oh no, not again) if we tune our harps to, say A- 443, and we play heartedly the pitch supposedly sinks to around 440.  But I don’t play loudly so that should mean my pitch remains closer to the 443 range.  Right?  Not that my ears can detect pitches accurately and I seldom play with another musician.  And those I do are likely tone deaf, judging from what I hear.
Also considering if the room temperature increases it affects the orchestras tuning, so how in our real world does that in reality affect our tuning?  And as we play, and warm our instrument, that should translate the tuning changes.  Gee whiz, I think it’s nap time.  Too much wondering. 

[Ed McCullough]

The idea of tuning a chromatic harmonica to 442, so that when you play it, it comes out at 440, makes no sense to me. I put a harmonic into my mouth, tune it for 440, and it plays at 440. Simple Story. I think anything else is smoke and mirrors and no cheese at the end of the tunnel.

[Age]

The idea of tuning a chromatic harmonica to 442, so that when you play it, it comes out at 440, makes no sense to me. I put a harmonic into my mouth, tune it for 440, and it plays at 440. Simple Story. I think anything else is smoke and mirrors and no cheese at the end of the tunnel.

Nope!
If I play a .440 Chrome with any one else, it sounds like fingernails on a blackboard. When playing my regular Chrombo along with the radio in my car (yes, while I'm driving ) and the recording is off by a frog-hair, I just wait till the next number comes on cuz I can't/won't play with music that ain't dead-nuts on the money.
"Pitch Snob" Age

[Ed McCullough]

I play at 440. Maybe your friends are playing at 442.